Wider front tires in no way make a car faster, they only allow it to corner harder, which has never even been brought up in this thread. and 3.73s upgraded from 3.55's is hardly an upgrade when the camaro has 6 speed manuals and automatics with steeper gears anyway

 

For a fanboy, you're sure down on the track pack . Here's the breakdown...

Mustang...........................Camaro
v6...................................v6
GT Deluxe.........................1SS
GT Premium.......................2SS
GT w/ Track pack...............

The track pack CERTAINLY makes a noticeable difference in acceleration AND handling for the GT. So much so that it almost matches or exceeds Camaro virtually every measurable performance criteria until the hp disadvantage finally comes through for GM. A Mustang w/ 400 hp would eliminate that advantage, and in all likelyhood be a CLEAR winner in performance.

Camaro, given it's mass, CERTAINLY has a use for more rubber and bar, as well as steeper gears (the brakes seem fine to me, I seem to remember a 108ft 60-0 number) in a "track pack", or in Camaro parlance "Z/28".

But make no mistake, when the coyote engine arrives, it's lights out for this version of the SS if nothing else is done.

 

GT w/ Track pack is slower than a Camaro SS. Think of it this way, Camaro only has a track pack, no non-track pack option. Track pack = SS

Camaro also has the RS package for the V6, Mustang doesn't have anything like that to my knowledge.

 

Sorry, I've been talking about overall performance all along.

BTW, cornering harder = cornering faster, so based on your own statement, I conclude that wider front tires do make a car faster.

GT+Track Pack outhandles SS. By all accounts I've seen, it also has more precise steering with better feel, especially on center.

I'd like to see GM address the steering feel for all Camaros (including V6), but I'd also like some option package that steps handling up to meet (and preferably beat) GT+Track Pack. I understand that it's not for everyone; that's why I'm saying it should be an option.

GT+Track Pack also keeps the pace with SS in a straight line up to 60mph, which is enough for some people. I'd love to see SS embarrass it right from zero.

RS is an appearance package with HID headlights. Mustang has available HIDs and a zillion appearance options.

 

as well as a "pony package".

 

0-60 times are the most useless performance benchmark out there. Yet that's what is always promoted most.

Oh well.

 

Once cars get into the sub 5 sec.and under 0-60 a race to 60mph is all up to the drivers. 0-100 and the Camaro beats the mustang by 1.5 seconds.


I was referring more towards the SS tires/wheels that get added. 275's out back on V6 cars.

 

While I understand what you're getting at (that it's a matter of traction), what you said here is not true. If it were, a good driver in a Camaro could keep up with a Bugatti Veyron to 60 (using the Veyron to make a point, but it still works with less ridiculous cars).

Has that been confirmed? I thought V6 RS = 245s all around.

 

next time i see one i'll look.

 

It should as its alot lighter. try getting a 300 lb woman to run around in circles

 

That was never going to be the GT's engine. It was going to be another Mustang.

GM's V8 engine program is on ice. But expect DI and the L99's cylinder deactivation as the next tricks to extend the LS3's life beyond the middle of next decade.


Don't count on it.

A RWD car with IRS designed for in excess of 500 horsepower and is tank-like enough to run solid and steady at nearly 190 mph isn't going to magically shed weight, or have a "package" that's going to make it lose a few hundered pounds.

Best bet is hope Direct Injection on the LS3 comes sooner rather than later, then pray like hell Ford 's new 5.0 V8 isn't as powerful as I'm hearing it is.


The Camaro SS's fuel economy advantage is due to a relatively long axle ratio. That's also why it can't run away from a Mustang till both get above 60 mph.

In the Mustang GT's defence, it gets the worse EPA fuel economy of the 3 because it's the only one that comes with a 5 speed manual instead of a 6 speed. But keep in mind that the much bigger Hemi Dodge Challenger R/T gets better fuel economy than the Camaro SS according to the EPA, and while the GT is rated lower, every real world test so far gives the Mustang the highest fuel economy. The GT got 17 mpg over Car & Driver's 400 mile run. The SS got 14 (even the R/T managed 15).


As for the Track Pack, I don't feel Camaro needs it. Sure, the Mustang GT with the TP absolutely slams the SS in roadholding and handling. And both cars use the exact same brand and type of tire (P-Zero), and the SS has IRS and was tuned on the Nurburgring, so you'd expect alot more from the Camaro.

But no one can be perfect in every way. The Hemi R/T is a deep breathing boulevard cruiser. The Mustang is a low priced curve carver. Camaro is the satanic looking car that can do everything it looks like it can do.

 

well to me it looks like it should out handle mustangs. seems it can't.

 

Weight has less to do with handling at this level than you may think.

In this instance, it's about engineering and the comittment to... "get it right".... but tires also are a big factor.

Although both the SS and the GT-TP use the same Pirelli P-Zero tires, the Mustang Track Pack actually has bigger wider tires than the Camaro up front (255s vs the SS' 245s) while the SS has massive tires in the back (275s). Not the idea setup if your intention is carving up curves and overcoming understeer.

The point isn't that the SS is a dismal handler (Corvettes roadholding is only about .83g) it's that Ford has done an absolutely phenominal job building in handling to the Mustang.

But still, it's not an issue of weight. Consider:

The Camaro SS has a roadholding rating of .85g. It weighs about 3850.

The Dodge Charger SRT8's roadholding is .88g. It weighs 4185.

A Bentley Continental's is .90g. It's curb weight? 5170.

The 3550 pound, Mustang GT Track Pack has .92g of roadholding.

Mustang Track Pack actually uses wider front tires than the SS.

Also, Steering feel is independent of weight.


With more time and effort, GM can dial in more handling into the Camaro by a better choice of tires & mild changes to the steering, just like they can get better acceleration numbers by going with a more aggresive axle.

But like everything else, you have to give up something to get something.

Camaro SS is fine as-is..... even if a Mustang GT will scoot around the track at angles that will leave an SS headed for the dirt. it still accerates like mad.

K......Point goes to 97z28/m6.

 

Any plans for a track pack on the V-6? Why wouldn't they offer the Brembo's on it? I'm sure people would pay for this. Help it compete further against the 370z....

 

What are the non-TP cars rated at? Since that will be the more common place car.