Renault-Nissan to build an electric car in 2010
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Renault-Nissan to build an electric car in 2010
Renault and Nissan are working on a new zero carbon emission power-train that is expected to be applied to a vehicle in 2010. The two companies are cooperating on a lithium ion battery to power the vehicle. Nissan will be focusing on the Japanese market while Renault will tackle the European fleet market. The joint development work is targeting developments in packaging the full system, the electric motor, and the control software for the regenerative braking, battery charging and optimizing battery life.
Yes I know its an old article but I just heard on the radio this morning that this is still forging ahead.
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Found a more recent one...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/motori...23242420080512
By Tova Cohen
TEL AVIV (Reuters) - The head of an Israeli-backed electric car project estimated on Sunday that its partner, the Renault-Nissan alliance, would likely invest $500 million to $1 billion in the swappable-battery electric cars.
"This is the cost for a three-year car programme," Shai Agassi, the founder and chief executive of California-based Project Better Place, said on the sidelines of a news conference to introduce the electric car prototype.
Renault and Nissan signed a deal with Better Place in January to begin mass producing electric cars as a part of a project to develop alternative energy sources and slash oil dependency.
Better Place will build the first electric grids in Israel and Denmark, with initial deployment slated for 2010.
Denmark's DONG Energy recently signed a letter of intent with Better Place to introduce the electric cars to the Scandinavian country, where the batteries will be charged using wind power.
DONG Energy is the world's largest offshore wind power operator, with several wind farms in Denmark and Britain.
Agassi said that up to 20 percent of Denmark's electricity production comes from wind but that 7 percent was not being used -- enough to power every car in Scandinavia.
A few dozen cars will be available in Israel later in 2008, mainly for demonstration. In Israel, much of the electricity is generated using fossil fuels such as coal, though natural gas is now being introduced. But Agassi said the plan was to use solar energy generated in Israel's Negev Desert to power the batteries.
"If all of Israel traveled by electric cars, you would need to add 6 percent of electricty production," Agassi said.
Renault will provide Better Place with vehicles while Nissan, through its joint venture with NEC, has created a lithium-ion battery pack. The project will also use batteries made by A123 Systems.
The batteries, weighing about 200 kg, will have a range of 160 to 200 km before needing to be recharged or swapped.
Agassi said the project was open to anyone who wants to join.
The initial $200 million investment (100 million pound) in Better Place is led by holding company Israel Corp, and includes Morgan Stanley, venture capital firm Vantage Point and a group of private investors.
500,000 CHARGING SPOTS
Better Place in Israel will deploy more than 500,000 charging spots, including at the homes and offices of its clients, and hundreds of battery exchange stations.
Moshe Kaplinsky, CEO of Better Place Israel, said a study conducted by Israeli consultancy and research institute Geocartography Knowledge Group, showed that two thirds of the public have a positive opinion of electric cars.
"We are not operating in a climate of indifference. The Israeli public is interested in what we are doing," Kaplinsky said. "We need to stop our dependence on oil."
In Israel, where most of its oil comes from Russia, 1.2 million households own cars and 210,000 would consider purchasing an electric car, the study showed.
Agassi said Better Place was in discussions in other countries to introduce similar projects.
European countries are interested in Better Place for environmental reasons while Asia is seeking to reduce pollution, and Africa sees huge potential to generate solar energy in the Sahara Desert, Agassi said.
North America is seeking to reduce its oil dependence.
"What happens when oil producers say: 'We don't take dollars anymore,'" Agassi said.
TEL AVIV (Reuters) - The head of an Israeli-backed electric car project estimated on Sunday that its partner, the Renault-Nissan alliance, would likely invest $500 million to $1 billion in the swappable-battery electric cars.
"This is the cost for a three-year car programme," Shai Agassi, the founder and chief executive of California-based Project Better Place, said on the sidelines of a news conference to introduce the electric car prototype.
Renault and Nissan signed a deal with Better Place in January to begin mass producing electric cars as a part of a project to develop alternative energy sources and slash oil dependency.
Better Place will build the first electric grids in Israel and Denmark, with initial deployment slated for 2010.
Denmark's DONG Energy recently signed a letter of intent with Better Place to introduce the electric cars to the Scandinavian country, where the batteries will be charged using wind power.
DONG Energy is the world's largest offshore wind power operator, with several wind farms in Denmark and Britain.
Agassi said that up to 20 percent of Denmark's electricity production comes from wind but that 7 percent was not being used -- enough to power every car in Scandinavia.
A few dozen cars will be available in Israel later in 2008, mainly for demonstration. In Israel, much of the electricity is generated using fossil fuels such as coal, though natural gas is now being introduced. But Agassi said the plan was to use solar energy generated in Israel's Negev Desert to power the batteries.
"If all of Israel traveled by electric cars, you would need to add 6 percent of electricty production," Agassi said.
Renault will provide Better Place with vehicles while Nissan, through its joint venture with NEC, has created a lithium-ion battery pack. The project will also use batteries made by A123 Systems.
The batteries, weighing about 200 kg, will have a range of 160 to 200 km before needing to be recharged or swapped.
Agassi said the project was open to anyone who wants to join.
The initial $200 million investment (100 million pound) in Better Place is led by holding company Israel Corp, and includes Morgan Stanley, venture capital firm Vantage Point and a group of private investors.
500,000 CHARGING SPOTS
Better Place in Israel will deploy more than 500,000 charging spots, including at the homes and offices of its clients, and hundreds of battery exchange stations.
Moshe Kaplinsky, CEO of Better Place Israel, said a study conducted by Israeli consultancy and research institute Geocartography Knowledge Group, showed that two thirds of the public have a positive opinion of electric cars.
"We are not operating in a climate of indifference. The Israeli public is interested in what we are doing," Kaplinsky said. "We need to stop our dependence on oil."
In Israel, where most of its oil comes from Russia, 1.2 million households own cars and 210,000 would consider purchasing an electric car, the study showed.
Agassi said Better Place was in discussions in other countries to introduce similar projects.
European countries are interested in Better Place for environmental reasons while Asia is seeking to reduce pollution, and Africa sees huge potential to generate solar energy in the Sahara Desert, Agassi said.
North America is seeking to reduce its oil dependence.
"What happens when oil producers say: 'We don't take dollars anymore,'" Agassi said.
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I just want to point out:
I've been saying for like 6 years...someone needs to make swappable batteries so "service stations" can basically cycle through them and charge them to allow long distance driving. It sounds like maybe they're working towards this direction. This sounds very promising. Of course we won't get this car int he US.
"Swappable-battery electric cars
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Thats nice. I guess.... I think we are all going to get jacked by increased prices reguardless of what fuel source is used. They all work off supply and demand, and if anyone has noticed Electricity is getting less cheap by the year as well. Partly due to the fuel it takes to transport the coal. (IE i use about half the electricity I used last year, and pay like I was using twice as much. example would be (and the numbers will look off but it is an example) I used 4 KW a month last year and paid $70 a month while this year I use 2KW a month and I pay $140 a month.)
Now. if everyone is recharging their cars batteries every day, it will be a drain on the grid, and one of two things will happen. we will have an energy crisis (like we already have enough of that in the summer time with A/C's running with the rolling blackouts), and electricity cost will go up 1/3 again and continue to increase so the power companies can build more plants or upgrade existing ones to more power output.
One way to get away would be for people to invest in "green" power to power their homes and charge their cars. However that is still pretty expensive overall, and with the power companies lobbying, there has been an increase in laws that make it harder to even actually install green power alternatives for normal people. Not only that, but now the power company does not have to buy back all the extra electricity you produce. only a fraction. So until green power is more affordable, and more easily accessible for everyone, using an electric based car is still not going to be any cheaper in the long run.
Now. if everyone is recharging their cars batteries every day, it will be a drain on the grid, and one of two things will happen. we will have an energy crisis (like we already have enough of that in the summer time with A/C's running with the rolling blackouts), and electricity cost will go up 1/3 again and continue to increase so the power companies can build more plants or upgrade existing ones to more power output.
One way to get away would be for people to invest in "green" power to power their homes and charge their cars. However that is still pretty expensive overall, and with the power companies lobbying, there has been an increase in laws that make it harder to even actually install green power alternatives for normal people. Not only that, but now the power company does not have to buy back all the extra electricity you produce. only a fraction. So until green power is more affordable, and more easily accessible for everyone, using an electric based car is still not going to be any cheaper in the long run.
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The price of electricity will depend on where you live. Not everyone uses coal. Additionally many utilities are required to get permission from local goverments before they can increase prices, and co-op's sometimes require approval from customers (who are owners).
Additionally...I think most electric cars could easily be charged off a $1,500 solar grid. I can see my company installing a large solar grid on our roof to charge electric cars
It's already been discussed to lower our electric bill due to running a data center.
The great thing about electric is there won't be any one source of electric power...since people are free to use alternatives like solar, windmills etc. I think the competition and options for consumers will ultimately sitll result in an overall reduced cost versus what gasoline will be in 2-3 years.
Additionally...I think most electric cars could easily be charged off a $1,500 solar grid. I can see my company installing a large solar grid on our roof to charge electric cars
It's already been discussed to lower our electric bill due to running a data center.The great thing about electric is there won't be any one source of electric power...since people are free to use alternatives like solar, windmills etc. I think the competition and options for consumers will ultimately sitll result in an overall reduced cost versus what gasoline will be in 2-3 years.
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I think the Fisker Karma has solar panels in the roof. http://www.zcars.com.au/fisker-karma/
Most do-it yourselfers are going to put panels on their cars if the manufacturer doesn't.
Electricity in Canada is from hydro-electric dams not coal. We also send some of our juice down to the States because we have a surplus. I'm sure we could easily build more dams and ocean wave technology is also being pushed now.
Most do-it yourselfers are going to put panels on their cars if the manufacturer doesn't.
Electricity in Canada is from hydro-electric dams not coal. We also send some of our juice down to the States because we have a surplus. I'm sure we could easily build more dams and ocean wave technology is also being pushed now.
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From: MN
I think the Fisker Karma has solar panels in the roof. http://www.zcars.com.au/fisker-karma/
Most do-it yourselfers are going to put panels on their cars if the manufacturer doesn't.
Electricity in Canada is from hydro-electric dams not coal. We also send some of our juice down to the States because we have a surplus. I'm sure we could easily build more dams and ocean wave technology is also being pushed now.
Most do-it yourselfers are going to put panels on their cars if the manufacturer doesn't.
Electricity in Canada is from hydro-electric dams not coal. We also send some of our juice down to the States because we have a surplus. I'm sure we could easily build more dams and ocean wave technology is also being pushed now.
Thats nice. But I can not put solar panels up... or a mini wind generator. They are prohibited. As far as sending power down here.. I could see that, but you do not send anywhere near enough. to deal with the demand that there is. I live in MN, and Xcel energy is trying to get the state to let them produce more power from the nuke plant, and build another plant. However near pipestone there is a huge windfarm. Which could supply the extra power, yet believe it or not, the transmission lines for that actually stop just short of the city 17 miles away. Not because they do not have enough electricity, it is simply because Xcel does not want them to tie into the lines (Xcel does not want to have you buy power from them since it is a surplus)
It's been a long topic of discussion around this area for some time. Of why we can not get better options for power with green stuff being prohibited, and area's that produce excess power are not allowed to put it on xcel lines.
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,647
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Thats nice. But I can not put solar panels up... or a mini wind generator. They are prohibited. As far as sending power down here.. I could see that, but you do not send anywhere near enough. to deal with the demand that there is. I live in MN, and Xcel energy is trying to get the state to let them produce more power from the nuke plant, and build another plant. However near pipestone there is a huge windfarm. Which could supply the extra power, yet believe it or not, the transmission lines for that actually stop just short of the city 17 miles away. Not because they do not have enough electricity, it is simply because Xcel does not want them to tie into the lines (Xcel does not want to have you buy power from them since it is a surplus)
It's been a long topic of discussion around this area for some time. Of why we can not get better options for power with green stuff being prohibited, and area's that produce excess power are not allowed to put it on xcel lines.
It's been a long topic of discussion around this area for some time. Of why we can not get better options for power with green stuff being prohibited, and area's that produce excess power are not allowed to put it on xcel lines.
The Walmart near my house sells panels in varying sizes that could be flush mounted to the roof of your car.
Edit: Even better one... http://www.onedigitallife.com/2004/1...ttery-charger/
Might not completely charge your car but would extend the range and when used with a plug in would reduce the charge time.
Last edited by Gripenfelter; May 13, 2008 at 03:44 PM.
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Solar panels are not as efficient as wind energy. (Hense why in Denmark this project actually makes sense.) We're looking into a solar project right now. Currently we pay 10¢/kW. For the solar project we are paying the vendor/contractor 15-20¢/kW. What's wrong with this picture? 
Not to mention the large amount of fossil fuels required to manufacture solar panels... 
Not to mention the large amount of fossil fuels required to manufacture solar panels...
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Renault will provide Better Place with vehicles while Nissan, through its joint venture with NEC, has created a lithium-ion battery pack. The project will also use batteries made by A123 Systems.
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Solar panels are not as efficient as wind energy. (Hense why in Denmark this project actually makes sense.) We're looking into a solar project right now. Currently we pay 10¢/kW. For the solar project we are paying the vendor/contractor 15-20¢/kW. What's wrong with this picture? Not to mention the large amount of fossil fuels required to manufacture solar panels...
Not to mention the large amount of fossil fuels required to manufacture solar panels... 
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Would take more energy to overcome than the energy they would create... unless it was made in such a way that they were only used when slowing down, aka. regenerative air-brake. Prbly not worth the effort though.
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From: Sandy VJJville
The kind of power that fans that small would generate would maybe be enough to illuminate a couple of dash lights, but that power would probably be negated by the drag created by the scoops.