Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
11-26-2005, 02:45 AM
#61
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
Originally Posted by turbo96z28
where to start............
it was a "secretary's" car when it was introduced....
it was a "secretary's" car when it was introduced....
really???? ask some of the guys on here who bought 67 Camaros what they think of the 2002s....
LS1 Z28s stickered at around $22K base. why did sales drop from 98-02 if the prices were so low????
well put it this way there are more people under 30 that want this car then there are over 30 so build it for the 20 y/o's that need to go out on the weekends and prove american muscle is still alive.
I know i will get mine strip it and go drag racing, if you want to pack the kids in go get ice cream after church fine but dont ruin it for the real muscle car lovers
11-26-2005, 02:55 AM
#62
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
Originally Posted by stars1010
What does my daily driver and these personal attacks on me have anything to do with this conversation?
You know nothing about me or what I want or enjoy.
I’m not going to get into an immature internet argument.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about concerning this conversation.
But this is obviously not even worth my time to explain why you’re wrong because all you want to talk about is how slow my car is.
I love my car.
Furthermore anyone with any sense in here can see the flaw in your argument. Your mind set is the reason the 4th gen failed.
Come back when you grow up.
You know nothing about me or what I want or enjoy.
I’m not going to get into an immature internet argument.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about concerning this conversation.
But this is obviously not even worth my time to explain why you’re wrong because all you want to talk about is how slow my car is.
I love my car.
Furthermore anyone with any sense in here can see the flaw in your argument. Your mind set is the reason the 4th gen failed.
Come back when you grow up.
you wrote what you want i dont have to know you. you told me!
yup the 02 f-body failed because of me huh? i think more cause gm wanted out of canada and the paperwork expired 2 months ago just in time for a new camaro but ok you have your opinion
for the record you are throwing personal attacks not me sorry you got offended but by seeing that you owned a old mustang, v6 camaro and now a gp i am guessing we are very diffrent people. ever been 8.90's at 165 mph? didnt think so
11-26-2005, 02:55 AM
#63
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Location: Houston
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
Originally Posted by amean94ta
and thats what made if famous right???? no its because it was fast and cheap
I cant because most of the guys that bought them new in the late 60's are either in retirement home's or driving caddys and not on this board
well you could not get a 02 z28 around here for that maybe greedy dealers but could not be done
well put it this way there are more people under 30 that want this car then there are over 30 so build it for the 20 y/o's that need to go out on the weekends and prove american muscle is still alive.
I know i will get mine strip it and go drag racing, if you want to pack the kids in go get ice cream after church fine but dont ruin it for the real muscle car lovers
I cant because most of the guys that bought them new in the late 60's are either in retirement home's or driving caddys and not on this board
well you could not get a 02 z28 around here for that maybe greedy dealers but could not be done
well put it this way there are more people under 30 that want this car then there are over 30 so build it for the 20 y/o's that need to go out on the weekends and prove american muscle is still alive.
I know i will get mine strip it and go drag racing, if you want to pack the kids in go get ice cream after church fine but dont ruin it for the real muscle car lovers
#1 yes they have always been high performers but the Camaro has never been the cheapest pony car on the market.
#2 The majority of Camaro’s sold in 2002 were fully loaded SS’s going for $30,000 + purchased by an average age of 40 year old men.
Look it up, I’ve seen the stats.
Yes kids in their 20’s love these cars. I’m one of them. But most 20 something year olds don’t have the financial resources to go buy a brand new $25,000 car.
GM would be stupid to market this car to a demographic that doesn’t have any money.
The performance in this car doesn’t have to be compromised for some daily comfort features.
If you don’t want them then buy your stripper car. I don’t care. GM makes money.
But if you think for two seconds that building the 4th gen again is going to make GM any money you’re horribly wrong.
This car is only going succeed if the buying public finds it attractive. Not if it runs low 12s off the show room floor.
I find it so damn idiotic that so many people here think quarter mile times sell cars.
Your wrong, get over it.
11-26-2005, 03:03 AM
#64
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Location: pa
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
well looks like i am talking to the wrong group of people, so i am just gonna bow out and head back to the racing section!
11-26-2005, 03:09 AM
#65
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
just one more thing
ever hear of
"Win on sunday sell on monday"
yup they were thinking of Ipods and good gas mileage in a car with heated seats that looks good
ever hear of
"Win on sunday sell on monday"
yup they were thinking of Ipods and good gas mileage in a car with heated seats that looks good
11-26-2005, 03:10 AM
#66
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Location: Houston
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
Originally Posted by amean94ta
never said your car was slow i infact own a 02 monte ss (same thing pretty much) and i love it also but i dont want my 09 camaro to be anything like it
Originally Posted by amean94ta
you wrote what you want i dont have to know you. you told me!
A big motor is not going to move cars off the lot.
Originally Posted by amean94ta
yup the 02 f-body failed because of me huh? i think more cause gm wanted out of canada and the paperwork expired 2 months ago just in time for a new camaro but ok you have your opinion
And don’t try to lecture me on the specifics to why our car is on hiatus. I can run circles around you on this topic.
Originally Posted by amean94ta
for the record you are throwing personal attacks not me sorry you got offended but by seeing that you owned a old mustang, v6 camaro and now a gp i am guessing we are very diffrent people. ever been 8.90's at 165 mph? didnt think so
All of your other response also alluded that I was some what less of a man that I drive V6.
Yes we are very different people. I’m going to leave it at that.
No I haven’t gone that fast and that not something I rate my self esteem at either.
I’ve driven plenty of fast car and really enjoy them. And once again I don’t see why the cars in my sig have anything to do with the fact that your opinion on the topic in this thread is flat out *** backwards wrong.
Now go ahead and whip out your huge e-dick and tell me how little of a man I am for driving a V6 car.
Jesus Christ get a life.
11-26-2005, 03:11 AM
#67
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Location: Houston
Posts: 3,123
Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
Originally Posted by amean94ta
just one more thing
ever hear of
"Win on sunday sell on monday"
yup they were thinking of Ipods and good gas mileage in a car with heated seats that looks good
ever hear of
"Win on sunday sell on monday"
yup they were thinking of Ipods and good gas mileage in a car with heated seats that looks good
11-26-2005, 03:17 AM
#68
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
yup very diffrent people
you took your pic down but i will leave mine
you took your pic down but i will leave mine
Last edited by amean94ta; 11-26-2005 at 03:30 AM.
11-26-2005, 03:56 AM
#69
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
Originally Posted by Z28x
Nav today is like a Radio was in the 40's. Why not argue that the Camaro should only have AM/FM, or that tape deck but not a CD player should be included.
The Camaro needs to make young people happy with "new hi-tech doo dads" Otherwise young people will just go to the imports. Just ask Buick or Oldsmobile how Selling only to old people worked out for them.
5th gen needs to MODERN. I hate that my Colorado wasn't offered with DIC or Reote start.
The Camaro needs to make young people happy with "new hi-tech doo dads" Otherwise young people will just go to the imports. Just ask Buick or Oldsmobile how Selling only to old people worked out for them.
5th gen needs to MODERN. I hate that my Colorado wasn't offered with DIC or Reote start.
It's like jogging with an Ipod or a Discman. Remember these are OPTIONAL. Its like in the 90's when you have standard AM/FM CASSETTE or OPTIONAL CD Headunit.
In order for GM to COMPETE they need to be up-to-date, otherwise it's going to get bagged on by the media and the young'uns who will go to other brands and become LOYAL to Honda and Toyota, our "enemy".
MUST HAVE OPTION
NAV I have a portable one and I LOVE it. Would be nice it I don't have to plug it in all the time.
Not a must option, but nice to have:
2-Setting Heated Seats That will keep my GF and me nice and warm without turning on the heater. I hate turning on the heater as it makes it VERY stuffy.
LED Taillamps Come on, even a Scion TC has it. Should be standard, not optional.
HIDs People bitched a lot about the poor illumination coming out of their 4th gen, so why not give it this option to satisfy them...and ME!!
Traction Control was already available before, so it will appear again.
OnStar, well, it's appearing on all the cars as it "saves lives." For the guy who states "if you can call for help you can use your cell", well if your bags deploy it contacts you to see if you are ok, if no answer, it will notify the local authorities.
Ipod, mp3 music .... it should be there since its already appear in new cars.
Side airbags will most likely make it since even a PT cruiser has it as an option.
HUD, I don't see it making the option list.
Last edited by F1GT; 11-26-2005 at 04:22 AM.
11-26-2005, 07:18 AM
#70
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate
Originally Posted by amean94ta
well put it this way there are more people under 30 that want this car then there are over 30 so build it for the 20 y/o's that need to go out on the weekends and prove american muscle is still alive.
11-26-2005, 07:31 AM
#71
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Location: Orlando, FL USA
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
I think we should expect an options list very similar to Mustangs, if not a little bit more. Im all for options on the car but I also agree it doesnt need the luxury car treatment.
-Heated seats would be kinda out of place on this car IMO.
-Ipod, mp3 capability should be there since they have the damn radio in the parts bin.
-HID lamps would be awesome but I cant see them making the cut either.
-A Nav system should be an option because there are those that live and die by those things.
The 5th gen will have to be modern and up to date with the times to compete and succeed but there are some options Im thinkin it can do without.
-Heated seats would be kinda out of place on this car IMO.
-Ipod, mp3 capability should be there since they have the damn radio in the parts bin.
-HID lamps would be awesome but I cant see them making the cut either.
-A Nav system should be an option because there are those that live and die by those things.
The 5th gen will have to be modern and up to date with the times to compete and succeed but there are some options Im thinkin it can do without.
11-26-2005, 09:01 AM
#73
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
Originally Posted by 94LightningGal
I think the mistake that alot are making here, is attaching what they deem important in a car (not necessarily a Camaro), as being important in EVERY car. This is not true.
Does the Mustang have a navigation system??? Even as an option??? Does it have HUD, or dual zone climate control, or ESS, or EST, or XYZ, or any other combination of letters to designate some electronic nanny of some sort??? Is the Mustang insanely successful???
See, there is a very simple formula here. This isn't rocket science. Build a good looking car that just screams CAMARO. Give it a good solid structure, a suspension that really does the job well.............. not caring how much aluminum/a-arms/3-link/4-link/coilover/IRS it has (who gives a ****, as long as it handles great, and has a decent ride). Give it 2-3 engine options, a manual and an automatic, a decent interior (we are not talking something that has to make an Audi owner cry......... that is not the goal here), the mainstream safety systems of the day, and some engine/appearance/personalization/interior/stereo options (you know, things like stereos with satellite radio/mp3/ipod capable........... stuff like that).
It is a given that it will have all of the basic power accessories. It is a given that it has to appeal to both women and men. It is also a given that it has to appeal to different demographics............ for it to have staying power. Try to keep the weight reasonable, while weighing that against the price point......... and make it aftermarket friendly.
Thats it !!!! This isn't rocket science. This isn't a $200K Ferrari. This is the Camaro. It doesn't need to handle like a Z06, accelerate like an F16, and cost like a Yugo. Just make the best CAMARO that you can............. and the people will come. Nostalgia is huge these days. As life gets more and more complicated, people just want to be reminded of when life was simpler. They just want a car that stands out from the crowd, and that they feel like has a bit of history behind it. It makes us feel good.
For all of you that want every option on the face of the sun on this car............. go ahead and work with GM to develop the _________ car. The Camaro is not it. To do what you are suggesting, is to destroy the Camaro............. and thus, it should not be named as such.
You know, I am an enthusiast, and I am a wife and momma. I love my heated leather/power moonroof/heated mirror/AWD just fine in my mommy mobile. However, I have no problem bypassing all of that, for my enthusiast vehicle............ that ellicits passion. Passion is what should drive a car like this............. not doodads.
Big Z.......... thats why I put the "assume" in ""............... to demonstrate how easy it is to stereotype. However, at least I did not call anybody stupid.
Does the Mustang have a navigation system??? Even as an option??? Does it have HUD, or dual zone climate control, or ESS, or EST, or XYZ, or any other combination of letters to designate some electronic nanny of some sort??? Is the Mustang insanely successful???
See, there is a very simple formula here. This isn't rocket science. Build a good looking car that just screams CAMARO. Give it a good solid structure, a suspension that really does the job well.............. not caring how much aluminum/a-arms/3-link/4-link/coilover/IRS it has (who gives a ****, as long as it handles great, and has a decent ride). Give it 2-3 engine options, a manual and an automatic, a decent interior (we are not talking something that has to make an Audi owner cry......... that is not the goal here), the mainstream safety systems of the day, and some engine/appearance/personalization/interior/stereo options (you know, things like stereos with satellite radio/mp3/ipod capable........... stuff like that).
It is a given that it will have all of the basic power accessories. It is a given that it has to appeal to both women and men. It is also a given that it has to appeal to different demographics............ for it to have staying power. Try to keep the weight reasonable, while weighing that against the price point......... and make it aftermarket friendly.
Thats it !!!! This isn't rocket science. This isn't a $200K Ferrari. This is the Camaro. It doesn't need to handle like a Z06, accelerate like an F16, and cost like a Yugo. Just make the best CAMARO that you can............. and the people will come. Nostalgia is huge these days. As life gets more and more complicated, people just want to be reminded of when life was simpler. They just want a car that stands out from the crowd, and that they feel like has a bit of history behind it. It makes us feel good.
For all of you that want every option on the face of the sun on this car............. go ahead and work with GM to develop the _________ car. The Camaro is not it. To do what you are suggesting, is to destroy the Camaro............. and thus, it should not be named as such.
You know, I am an enthusiast, and I am a wife and momma. I love my heated leather/power moonroof/heated mirror/AWD just fine in my mommy mobile. However, I have no problem bypassing all of that, for my enthusiast vehicle............ that ellicits passion. Passion is what should drive a car like this............. not doodads.
Big Z.......... thats why I put the "assume" in ""............... to demonstrate how easy it is to stereotype. However, at least I did not call anybody stupid.
11-26-2005, 09:27 AM
#74
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Location: Milton, FL
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Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
good sound option
not the monsoon atrocity that was bestowed upon 4th gen owners. the 5-speaker BOSE system was halfway decent, but certainly can be lightyears better.
the mustang's mach 1000 setup was a lot better than anything the f-body ever came with, that should be at the very least a minimum goal for the top-tier sound option.
not the monsoon atrocity that was bestowed upon 4th gen owners. the 5-speaker BOSE system was halfway decent, but certainly can be lightyears better.
the mustang's mach 1000 setup was a lot better than anything the f-body ever came with, that should be at the very least a minimum goal for the top-tier sound option.
11-26-2005, 09:29 AM
#75
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Posts: 141
Re: Real World options that the 5th Gen MUST have to compete, but "purists" will hate...
If a Honda Civic can come with NAV, I think a Camaro should have it as an option.
Unfortuantly the Camaro nameplate while popular, just does not have the mass appeal like the Mustang brand which is almost iconic.. GM should not try and just copy option wise the Mustang, but go all out even more. GM has been playing the "just as good" game for too long. As long as some of these things like NAV, HUD are an option, it will not hurt sales for people looking for a car like this with a lower sticker. GM can cater to a larger segment by offering options like mentioned.
The last gen Camaro was built specifically for the enthusiast, and that is why it failed. GM did not cater to the mass crowd when considering the 4th Gen.
Unfortuantly the Camaro nameplate while popular, just does not have the mass appeal like the Mustang brand which is almost iconic.. GM should not try and just copy option wise the Mustang, but go all out even more. GM has been playing the "just as good" game for too long. As long as some of these things like NAV, HUD are an option, it will not hurt sales for people looking for a car like this with a lower sticker. GM can cater to a larger segment by offering options like mentioned.
The last gen Camaro was built specifically for the enthusiast, and that is why it failed. GM did not cater to the mass crowd when considering the 4th Gen.
Last edited by Kevin_G; 11-26-2005 at 09:31 AM.