Don't have to deal with that in SE Virginia....errr...wait...I'm in Texas now....DAMN SURE don't have to mess with that here! Still, if I were to pick up something 20+ years old, it would be an 86/87 T-Type (or perhaps a GN). Always wanted one....came close a few time, but never pulled the trigger.

 

One last thing I think you simply can not emphasize enough.

In addition to insurance, fuel economy was very important.... and not because you wanted to be socially responsible either!


Mentioned before was the fact that in today's dollars, Fuel ranged from $3 per gallon to $4.50 per gallon, or even more. Today, in the real world, you can expect to average well over 20 mpg with today's top performance cars.

Even a 500 horsepower GT500 is rated at 20 mpg on the highway.

However, back in 1978, A Mustang II with the 170 V6 was rated at 20 mpg on the highway!

A Z28 was rated at 14 & 19 mpg city/highway.

The T/A 6.6 Pontiac Trans Am with a manual was rated at (better sit down for this).....
12 mpg city....and 19 mpg highway.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/78guide.txt

With gas bouncing between $3 per gallon and at least $4.50 per gallon in today's dollars, plus insurance surcharges (meaning in addition to what say a 25 year old woman buying a regular Firebird) on both the performance car as well as males under 25, and it drives home the fact that unless we're talking someone with alot of money to burn, you didn't exactly have kids running around in these cars.

God forbid if you showed up at your insurance agent's door with something with the letters "GTO" or "SS" on the side of your vehicle (today, insurance companies don't typically discriminate on gender, and base rates more on actual claims than reputation or horsepower numbers... LS1 Z28s typically had lower insurance rates than Honda VTECs for sub-25 year olds).

Your allowance money would also be toast if you had a 455 or 454, or even a Chrysler 440 under the hood of what ever you were driving! Pollution chocked or not, you were talking single digits city mileage, and you'd worship your lucky stars if you averaged double digits!

Imagine driving a Dodge Ram SRT-10 last summer when gas was almost $5 per gallon (but with a smaller fuel tank), and you'll get the picture.


So going back to Brandon's original question, yes. Top powered, legendary engines dissappeared in the 70s. However, the issue with those of us driving back then was far outweighed by fuel economy and insurance.

As far as the run-of-the-mill car, or even the actual on-the-street muscle cars (not the hard-to-find top drawer models in the car magazines), we barely noticed the difference. It's like the mid-level performance cars became the top level ones..... kind of like the current 540 horsepower Mustang GT500s being replaced by something with the performance of the upcoming 400 hp Camaro SS.

(while the performance drop in 80-82 was more like going from that 400 horse Camaro back to the IROC Camaro days )

 

Hey Art, IIRC (amazing how I remember 30 y.o. road tests, but forget what I had for lunch yesterday), that one had afew minor mods. Opened hoodscoop with air cleaner sealed around it, rejetted Quadrajet, recurved HEI and headers.

 

Their is an older guy in our area who has an 81 Z28, Blue with the stripe around the base of the car, its T tops and 4 speed. He bought it when he retired and it is still his daily driver, everything is origional and it only has 30,000 miles last I looked

BTW, is that 67, (gold) your college car? Thats cool if you kept it that long

 

T Tops and a 4 Speed in an 81 mean its a 305. The 350 was only available in the US with the 3AT (IIRC). I have fond memories of cruising in my buddy's White 81 Z28 T-Top with the 350. I think my 4.7 Grand Cherokee would outrun it though.

 

Maybe I'm off on the year- If it were an 80- Could it have a 350? I was certain it was.

It was as loaded as possible at the time, blue on blue. It needs some TLC and a restore, it's garage kept but the paint is dull and all the rubber trim on the car is shot. I think it has the origional or very close to it tires.

This car looks just like it + T tops http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...aug2007_03.jpg

 

Nope. I bought that 5 years ago when my then 16 year-old stepson got interested in 1st gen Camaros and my passion was reborn. Before then I had no desire to ever go back again. (Come to think of it, it was 5 years ago this month. ) I followed it up a year later with the blue coupe which became a project-car for the two of us.

My college car was sold to my little brother in 1991. He blew up the built 327 I put in it in 1987. He swapped in a 355 and at the same time swapped the powerglide for a TH350. He sold it for about $1500 in 1993 when he couldn't get it to pass emissions, it was then primer gray and had a torn-up parchment-white deluxe interior. It is a small world though. In September 2005 while searching for a project-car for my stepson, I came across my '68 RS on ebay. The seller was in Chico. The car had exchanged hands twice more after my brother sold it. He had purchased it as a parts car for his '68 RS convertible, but thought it too nice a car to part out and instead restored it. It still had the engine my brother put in, along with the stereo system I had installed. He had changed the interior color over to black, and painted it powder blue, with medium blue Z/28-ralley stripes. He offered it back to me for $12K but I ended up passing. (It was the color that did it.) I'm not sure where it is today, but I have to admit, from time to time I look for it in ebay, autotrader, craigslist, where ever I happen to be browsing.

FWIW, my Gold '67 RS is a numbers matching 95% original car. I was planning to sell it this spring (and still may for the right price), but now I may end up keeping it... provided I can convince my wife, which may entail painting it... she hates "gold"!

 

What's a "right" price?

 

My Dad bought a '79 Z28 the year I got my license. I loved that car and still have it today. It was fast for it's time. It's handling was SO much better than most cars of that era. It could turn heads like it STILL does today. The Trans Am was very nice. It did offer a little more than the Z28. However, it was more expensive and the Z28 came with a Chevy 350. I think the Trans Am had the Olds 403 since, GM went to corporate engines (all colored blue). Boy, they sold so many Camaro's back then. Everywhere you looked there was one. So, it was nice that the Z28 came in so many different colors. You also had a choice of many different colored stripes and interiors. I recall also watching the IROC series on TV where the drivers used Z28 camaro's. I think Mario Andretti won that year. I also was pleased to see the use of a '79 Z28 in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". I also recall a TV commercial of a '79 Z28 going through cones to show off it's handling. Have not been able to find it. Even on You tube. Oh, the memories. I make some new ones with the 2010.

 

Probably mid to upper 20s. Its basically been buried in my garage for the last 4 years. I plan to pull it out this spring, detail it, and make some minor repairs to get it in "daily driver" shape (needs front sway bar, new u-joints, oil change, etc.), then evaluate what it would take for me to part with it.

 

You havent driven it in 4 years?

BTW, good story, and always nice to hear about a young person getting interested in cars Is it "slow" to you being a 327 with a 2 speed transmission? or is that to relative?

 

I have three Camaros. I can't drive them all at the same time. (Actually, I got sidetracked on the blue coupe and then other projects came up.)

My first Camaro was 327 with a 2 speed. Yes. It is slow. (It only has a 2-bbl carb.) However it sounds cool (glass packs, the only performance mod), and it looks cool. Heck compared to the blue coupe that has at least 150 more horses and a 5-speed... its R-E-A-L slow.

 

You're choosing test results to fit your purposes, Guy. Check out some of the HRM tests from 1970 and you'll see cars deep into the 13s at over 100mph.

The 1970 GTO that C&D tested was a fully loaded model with the 455 (not HO -- 455HO didn't come until 1971). It weighed ~4200 pounds IIRC.

That '78 Volare Road Runner was the fastest thing you could get from Plymouth in 1978, while the 383 Road Runner most definitely was not.

Still, your points have some validity. It was possible to buy a car in 1978 that ran close to a base muscle car from 1970. And base model V8s in non-muscle cars would have been easily beaten by a modern Malibu with the 2.4. A 1970 Impala with a 350 2-bbl probably would have struggled to get an 18 flat 1/4 mile time.

 

Not sure how you can say I'm choosing tests to fit my purposes when I state that my point is to show that cars of the 70s were pretty much equal with all but the muscle cars that actually sold during the muscle car era.

Sure, I could post the fastest Roadrunner times (the Hemi 426), but with only 153 of 41,000 Roadrunners coming that way in 1970, it would have been pretty silly of me since the things are rarer than legitamate Bigfoot sightings. Using the 440 (1900 made) wouldn't have been much better. If you came across a 70 Roadrunner, it was pretty much certain it was a 383. And the 78 Volare Roadrunner was pretty much on par in performance. It has only 1 engine choice.


Same holds true with GTO. The bulk of GTOs came with the 350 horse 400 (30,000 of a total of about 40,000) so the chances of coming up on a Ram Air GTO was actually pretty small. If anything, I should have posted the slower numbers of that engine instead of the quicker 455 (only 4K made).

GTO buyers tended to load up their cars with every option they could get ahold of. Roadrunner was a budget musle car that people tended to buy as devoid of options as possible.


I included the magazine and month these figures are from to provide the opportunity for anyone to check, to read the article themselves. In stating "some HRM articles" leaves alot of questions open. Did those cars have some type of tweak? Any parts added? Did they swap gearing?



FWIW, no the 383 Road Runner wasn't the quickest. That honor goes to the Hemi Roadrunner at 4.8 to 60 and a quarter of 13.5@105 (Car & Driver, 1970).

Roadrunner had a base curb weight of about 3500 pounds, The Hemi engine sent the weight to 4,000 pounds, and added roughly 30% to the Roadrunner's base price. GTOs started at just a hair under 3700 pounds.

 

It depended from article to article. Sometimes they'd just test them stock and other times, they'd tune them, change gears, put on slicks. In those cases, you'd usually get a series of times.

I didn't (and don't) have my HRM book at hand, but if you're interested, I'll get it and post some info over the weekend.