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A PRODUCTION BMW that gets better fuel economy than a Prius?

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Old Mar 26, 2008 | 10:23 PM
  #16  
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Hmm, the 5 Series is in a completely different class than the crappy Prius which makes the results more impressive. One of the tidier, less luxurious turbo diesel sedans with similar technology would probably end up destroying the Prius in this test, and maybe even get close to it in the city while having a cheaper buy in.

Regarding city mileage of the 520d:
Stuck in rush-hour traffic in Reims, fuel consumption dropped to an average of about 40mpg
Sadly only ~33mpg (in US gallons), but not bad for a car its size.

The computer was telling me that, for the journey as a whole, I had averaged more than 50mpg. The test had taken us along just over 200 miles of autoroute, about 200 miles of B roads, including winding ascents and descents in Switzerland, and 100 miles of urban driving.
Prius is rated at 48mpg city, 45 highway fwiw.

Last edited by HAZ-Matt; Mar 26, 2008 at 10:25 PM.
Old Mar 26, 2008 | 10:50 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50˘ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it.
Your point is a very good one. Diesel here costs over $4.10, regular costs about $3.60.

The point though is that from an enviromental standpoint, and from a standpoint of using less fuel, the Prius can be matched and surpassed. It isn't the golden fleece that it's fans seem to proclaim it.
Old Mar 26, 2008 | 10:53 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Todd80Z28
Weak! Why does the anti-hybrid crowd insist on testing hybrids in conditions that they aren't built for? These are the same retards that quote the best highway mileage their car ever got as their "norm."
It's fair to test Hybrids in the same variations of driving conditions that everyone else has to drive, not only urban-only conditions.
Old Mar 26, 2008 | 11:26 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by guionM
The point though is that from an enviromental standpoint, and from a standpoint of using less fuel, the Prius can be matched and surpassed. It isn't the golden fleece that it's fans seem to proclaim it.
Agreed. IMHO bio-diesel is far greener than E85, and hybrids are today's pet rock. Once the shine wears off and people find something greener, hybrids will need to evolve into something else, or they'll disappear altogether.
Old Mar 27, 2008 | 06:27 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Agreed. IMHO bio-diesel is far greener than E85, and hybrids are today's pet rock. Once the shine wears off and people find something greener, hybrids will need to evolve into something else, or they'll disappear altogether.
What I don't like about most hybrids is that they aren't cost effective for most consumers. I'm all for saving energy, but for most consumers, buying a Corolla makes more sense than a Prius.

That being said, some of the technologies used in hybrids can and should be applied throughout the industry. Regenerative braking (electric or air), and drivetrains that don't need to idle when the vehicle is stopped.
In city driving, these technologies can save a lot of fuel.
Old Mar 27, 2008 | 12:05 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat
What I don't like about most hybrids is that they aren't cost effective for most consumers. I'm all for saving energy, but for most consumers, buying a Corolla makes more sense than a Prius.

That being said, some of the technologies used in hybrids can and should be applied throughout the industry. Regenerative braking (electric or air), and drivetrains that don't need to idle when the vehicle is stopped.
In city driving, these technologies can save a lot of fuel.
This is chicken and egg, though. You can't have cost-effective next-generation hybrid technology for the masses, if you don't have early adopters willing to pay the extra cost for the first generation stuff, that ultimately finances the next generation (and always cheaper) stuff.
Originally Posted by guionM
It's fair to test Hybrids in the same variations of driving conditions that everyone else has to drive, not only urban-only conditions.
If your purpose is to save money on fuel, you don't buy a vehicle that's not optimized for your particular driving conditions. If I lived in the sticks and commuted 60 miles each way at 70mph, I wouldn't even consider a hybrid as a high-mileage choice. If I drove in craptastic DC traffic everyday, the hybrid would be perfect.

So they did a 550 mile road trip where they got stuck in traffic a few times, now let's see a 550 mile city work commute over a 2-3 week period, and see how the comparison stacks up.

Finally, I can't figure how they got such low mileage. My brother is an AWFUL driver (heavy foot, late-braking gas pumper- you know what I'm talking about), and he still manages 44mpg in his Prius. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the 78+mph cruise speed, and you can't cheat physics there.
Old Mar 28, 2008 | 09:17 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50˘ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it.

A mid size luxury car that has some grunt and can move

vs

an egg carton on wheels that can't outrun a school bus.

yeah apples and oranges.

I'll take the oranges.

Last edited by BigBlueCruiser; Mar 28, 2008 at 09:21 AM.
Old Mar 28, 2008 | 09:14 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Todd80Z28
If your purpose is to save money on fuel, you don't buy a vehicle that's not optimized for your particular driving conditions. If I lived in the sticks and commuted 60 miles each way at 70mph, I wouldn't even consider a hybrid as a high-mileage choice. If I drove in craptastic DC traffic everyday, the hybrid would be perfect.

So they did a 550 mile road trip where they got stuck in traffic a few times, now let's see a 550 mile city work commute over a 2-3 week period, and see how the comparison stacks up.
People who drive Prius don't look at their cars the way a Yaris, or Escort, or any other economy car driver views their car. Those drivers tend to buy and view their cars as a way to save gas, and the cars practicality. Prius drivers as a group really do tend to be much like the South Park episode parodied. They feel they are making a statement in saving the enviroiment, and the Prius is their "Good Citizen" badge.

If the Prius looked like a Corolla or any other regular car, it would as surely be stacked up on dealer lots as Ford's Escape Hybrids were till just recently (Ford's been making Escape Hybrids for quite some time!). On the flip side, if the Prius was conventionally powered, it also would probally sit on lots.

Prius has it's good points. But a conventionally powered car has just as much potential. BMW proves it.

It's going to be intresting when GM's Volt comes to market. That's the time when we'll see if those very same people really do have enviromental credentials, or are simply just arrogant Toyota-is-green mouthpieces.

Finally, I can't figure how they got such low mileage. My brother is an AWFUL driver (heavy foot, late-braking gas pumper- you know what I'm talking about), and he still manages 44mpg in his Prius. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the 78+mph cruise speed, and you can't cheat physics there.
Easy.

They drove the Prius like a regular car.

Just like car reviewers drive a Malibu, a Cobalt, a Mini, a Mustang, and pretty much every other car around.

Treating the Prius with kid gloves and restricting it to nothing but urban driving in reviews is like declaring a Charger SRT8 is a car everyone should be driving simply because it gets great 0-60 times when you limit testing to a drag strip.
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