Ponycar Wars
05-03-2003, 12:03 PM
#1
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Ponycar Wars
I was skiming through the new issue of Motortrend yesterday, when the title of an Editorial caught my eye. It was called "The new Ponycar Wars".
I quickly flipped back to the article and started to read with excitement and anticipation. I soon realized the article was not about Camaros, Firebirds, and Mustangs; It was about Mitsubishis and Subarus!
I could not freaking believe my eyes. I truely never thought I would see the day. It tis a very sad, sad, day indeed.
Way to go GM! While you have been sitting on your Azzez for the last several years creating your long list of excuses of why we don't have a new Camaro or Firebird; Yet another market segment that you used to own has now been taken over by your competitors. Congratulations!
What the hell GM, you still have trucks to fall back on, right?
Grandpa Motors strickes again!
I quickly flipped back to the article and started to read with excitement and anticipation. I soon realized the article was not about Camaros, Firebirds, and Mustangs; It was about Mitsubishis and Subarus!
I could not freaking believe my eyes. I truely never thought I would see the day. It tis a very sad, sad, day indeed.
Way to go GM! While you have been sitting on your Azzez for the last several years creating your long list of excuses of why we don't have a new Camaro or Firebird; Yet another market segment that you used to own has now been taken over by your competitors. Congratulations!
What the hell GM, you still have trucks to fall back on, right?
Grandpa Motors strickes again!
05-03-2003, 03:57 PM
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Call me old-fashioned, but NO front-wheel-drive car will ever be a "pony car" in my book.
The inherent inefficiency of front-wheel-drive just gives me a headache whenever I see it mentioned as a performance platform. BS. It's like trying to carry a load with your arms bent backwards.
gt
The inherent inefficiency of front-wheel-drive just gives me a headache whenever I see it mentioned as a performance platform. BS. It's like trying to carry a load with your arms bent backwards.
gt
05-03-2003, 06:50 PM
#7
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Originally posted by kizz
The inherent inefficiency of front-wheel-drive just gives me a headache whenever I see it mentioned as a performance platform. BS. It's like trying to carry a load with your arms bent backwards.
gt
The inherent inefficiency of front-wheel-drive just gives me a headache whenever I see it mentioned as a performance platform. BS. It's like trying to carry a load with your arms bent backwards.
gt
05-03-2003, 07:56 PM
#8
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Originally posted by kizz
Call me old-fashioned, but NO front-wheel-drive car will ever be a "pony car" in my book.
Call me old-fashioned, but NO front-wheel-drive car will ever be a "pony car" in my book.
Either way, if you want American RWD V8 performance, you buy a Ford. If you want affordable performance that's not Ford, you buy a Subaru, or a Mitsubishi, or maybe the new Neon.
GM is out of the cheap performance game, at least for the next few years. Oh well, at least some automakers out there still want my money.
05-03-2003, 10:37 PM
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you guys are incredible!some of you misread something or hear something out of context or just hear what you want to hear so some of you can whine!the guy in motor trend wasn't saying these cars were pony cars,he was comparing the mitsubishi vs subaru deal to the past when we had mustang vs camaro vs cuda vs whatever.the WRX,EVO are the new "pony" cars as in they're really actually going at each other.they have a rivalry,like mustang and camaro.since the mustang has no arch-enemy anymore,we have to find our cheap,fast car battles elsewhere.these are the new "pony" car wars.look at the SRT-4 vs mazdaspeed vs focus SVT,same deal.by the way,the SRT-4 is more of a GTO in spirit than the aussie.chew on that.
05-04-2003, 03:31 PM
#10
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Personally I'm all FOR all-wheel-drive. The possibilities for the next-gen Grand Am have got a lot of people excited including me. It's front-wheel-drive I was talking about being inefficient. The weight and power dynamics are just not suited to performance, period. Fast? yes. Quarter mile threat? maybe. Efficient? No way.
gt
gt
05-04-2003, 03:45 PM
#11
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally posted by R377
What are you referring to as inefficient? Most FWD drivetrains are more efficient (i.e. less drivetrain loss) than similar RWD cars.
What are you referring to as inefficient? Most FWD drivetrains are more efficient (i.e. less drivetrain loss) than similar RWD cars.
05-04-2003, 05:03 PM
#12
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Posts: 1,381
Originally posted by Derek Smalls
you guys are incredible!some of you misread something or hear something out of context or just hear what you want to hear so some of you can whine!the guy in motor trend wasn't saying these cars were pony cars,he was comparing the mitsubishi vs subaru deal to the past when we had mustang vs camaro vs cuda vs whatever.the WRX,EVO are the new "pony" cars as in they're really actually going at each other.they have a rivalry,like mustang and camaro.since the mustang has no arch-enemy anymore,we have to find our cheap,fast car battles elsewhere.these are the new "pony" car wars.look at the SRT-4 vs mazdaspeed vs focus SVT,same deal.by the way,the SRT-4 is more of a GTO in spirit than the aussie.chew on that.
you guys are incredible!some of you misread something or hear something out of context or just hear what you want to hear so some of you can whine!the guy in motor trend wasn't saying these cars were pony cars,he was comparing the mitsubishi vs subaru deal to the past when we had mustang vs camaro vs cuda vs whatever.the WRX,EVO are the new "pony" cars as in they're really actually going at each other.they have a rivalry,like mustang and camaro.since the mustang has no arch-enemy anymore,we have to find our cheap,fast car battles elsewhere.these are the new "pony" car wars.look at the SRT-4 vs mazdaspeed vs focus SVT,same deal.by the way,the SRT-4 is more of a GTO in spirit than the aussie.chew on that.
05-04-2003, 06:02 PM
#13
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Originally posted by 87camracer
how do you figure? i have read many times to figure about a 20-25% drivetrain loss for FWD. while a RWD car typically has 15-18% drivetrain loss.
how do you figure? i have read many times to figure about a 20-25% drivetrain loss for FWD. while a RWD car typically has 15-18% drivetrain loss.
The main reason for FWD being more efficient is that the power does not have to turn 90º as it does in the rear differential of a RWD car. This perpendicular transfer of power is accomplished by hypoid gears which are not very efficient. FWD, on the other hand, does not have to turn the power 90º and therefore uses helical gears which are from 25-40% more efficient.
Also, with the FWD transaxle design everything is in one case and there's no power-robbing driveshaft to sap even more power.
05-04-2003, 07:38 PM
#14
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Efficient? Absolutely.
Originally posted by kizz
Personally I'm all FOR all-wheel-drive. The possibilities for the next-gen Grand Am have got a lot of people excited including me. It's front-wheel-drive I was talking about being inefficient. The weight and power dynamics are just not suited to performance, period. Fast? yes. Quarter mile threat? maybe. Efficient? No way.
gt
Personally I'm all FOR all-wheel-drive. The possibilities for the next-gen Grand Am have got a lot of people excited including me. It's front-wheel-drive I was talking about being inefficient. The weight and power dynamics are just not suited to performance, period. Fast? yes. Quarter mile threat? maybe. Efficient? No way.
gt
But just like a highly efficent diesel isn't suited to a performance car, neither is FWD - but both are more efficient .
05-05-2003, 07:59 AM
#15
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Originally posted by 0toinsanein5.4sec
Correct me if i am wrong, but what you are saying is that if there is a rivalry between two cars, it automatically makes it a pony car?are ferraris and lamborghinis pony cars?
Correct me if i am wrong, but what you are saying is that if there is a rivalry between two cars, it automatically makes it a pony car?are ferraris and lamborghinis pony cars?