It seems as if GM hopes that the Zeta platform will allow Pontiac and Buick to move upscale. Buick will get high performance successors for the Park Avenue and the long dead Riviera - perhaps even a convertible. Pontiac will replace both the Grand Prix and Bonneville with single RWD sedan (G8?) and the GTO will be reborn as well.

The big question is whether the Buick and Pontiac divisions have the prestige to move upscale products. Judging by recent history, the answer is a definite NO.

1. There hasn't been a successful Riviera since the sale collapse that came with the 1986 redesign. The last generation car disappeared for lack of demand, dying even before the older Cadillac Eldorado.

2. The Park Avenue sells in tiny volumes compared to the more expensive DeVille.

3. Even the addition of the Northstar engined GXP model (the ghost of the Aurora) didn't effect the fate of the Boneville.

4. With the cool reception of the "Aussie" GTO, you really have to wonder if the nameplate is too tarnished for a successful Zeta-based successor?

Instead of proceeding with a slate models that are sure to fail, I'd suggest a last moment shift in marketing strategy.

1. GM should completely scrap all Zeta-platform products for the Pontiac and Buick divisions. A whole slate of upscale offering from these divisions will fail to make reasonable sales volumes, even with exceptional levels of incentivization.

2. Efforts should be concentrated on a Zeta-based Cadillac DTS replacement. Only a DTS segment product would allow the volume and the price point to be seriously viable.

3. As part of the shift of the Zeta platform to Cadillac, I would also suggest that GTO and "Riviera-replacement" coupes be cancelled outright in favor of a Cadillac ETC replacement. The continuing success of the Mercedes CL and CLS shows that the luxury coupe market isn't dead, it's just waiting for a decent product with the right badge.

With the proper design and marketing elements, it could be entirely possible for GM to sell 200,000 Zeta-based Cadillacs per year. What I'm suggesting is replacing 4 products that will undoubtably fail with 2 products with far better prospects and more limited risks.

GM is fighting a losing battle trying to convince aging babyboomers that Buick and Pontiac are "luxury nameplates." At the same time, Cadillac needs volume models to sustain growth. The Sigma platform is limited in flexibility, the Escalade is starting to fade in sales and the rumored V12 flagship will have sales in the hundreds, not the hundred of thousands.

 

So.... you'd like to see a return to the "old-guard" at GM where the only RWD products offered are Cadillac and Corvette!?!?

No thanks...

 

No, I was merely suggesting that Pontiac and Buick are doomed in the drive upmarket. With a large RWD platform at its disposal, Cadillac has the best chance at generating volume sales and generous per unit profits. GM needs profitability and market share, not more flops like the '04 GTO and the last-generation Riviera.

 

Aside from the Kappa cars, what would be RWD cars other than Cadillac and the Vette?

 

A nice large RWD platform can sell an assload through Chevy and Buick as they have in the past with Caprices, Roadmasters etc. Of course these were not upscale large platforms like Cadillac. But they can use that platform to sell lower end cars that are RWD and large.

 

I'm not saying that there shouldn't direct replacements for the current Holden range, or mainstream RWD products in any GM division. All I'm saying is that the sales performance of the current GTO is a "wake-up-call" to GM. The slow disappearance of cars like the Bonneville and Park Avenue is even harder to ignore.

The Pontiac brand doesn't seem to be able to move $35,000-40,000 vehicles in reasonable numbers. Does anyone believe that a $45-55K Buick sedan can sell 100,000-150,000 units/year?

 

Look at the sucess of the all but dead chrysler has with the 300 . People warmed up to that with a qwikness . Say it again , build a quality car people want to buy at a good price and you will not need to search for your buyers .....they will come to you .

 

1. GM doesn't seem to have the ability or inclination to "value price" a car like the Chrysler 300C. You can expect Buick's Zeta-platform sedan to be priced much like today's $45-55K Cadillac DeVille.

2. Chrysler was able to pull off a complete shift in design with the 300. Judging by past experience, the Zeta-platfrom Pontiac will look like a gigantic G6 and the "flagship" Buick could end up with the same derivative styling elements as the LaCrosse.

 

Basicly boring same styling, with rwd, and a god awfull price..

BTW wheres the poll option at?

 

I'll hold judgement till I see the finished product , both on style and price . These will be 100 % Lutz era cars unlike the Malibu , grand prix ect. These are the cars that will define the new GM , hopefully they wont disappoint .

 

By many accounts, the Oldsmobile Aurora was a great car, probably one of GM's best offerings....it was just saddled with a brand name that couldn't survive. Also, Cadillac already has its RWD platform, Sigma...the potentially "dumbed down" components of Zeta don't fit Cadillac well. I think Buick can fit right in where Cadillac used to be, in the "near" luxury market where brands like Acura and Infinity play. Some good RWD products are a nice start. Heck they'd already be ahead of Acura in that regard as Honda still hasn't figured out a serious sports/luxury sedan is NOT front wheel drive.

 

Look at the 300C and Mustang. Why can't Pontiac and Buick have similar type products?

Pontiac and Buick need V8 Zeta products. There success basically depends on 2 things. 1) Price 2) styling.

Ford only sold about 10,000 $34K Cobras a year, which is less that the amount of LS1/LS2 GTOs that will be sold, and that's with a vary aggressive looking Mustang vs. a GTO that is conservatively styled. With classic GTO styling queues (just queues NOT retro) a 340HP LS4 GTO starting at $27K and a LS2 GTO at $30K the next GTO will sell better than the G35/350Z.

Same goes for G8? And the Buick Sedan. Price the V8 Zetas with an MSRP of no more than the Hemi 300C and they will do fine. GrandPrix/G8 should cost no more than the current Grand Prix. LS4 Grand Prix should be priced the same as the current GTP.

 

I thought this was supposed to be a poll.

 

I dont see how GM is "losing the battle" to go up market...they just started.
Lexus had to start somewhere.
I dont think people will think Pontiac=BMW, but they might think that Pontiac=Acura or Infinity. Companies known for being sporty and well equiped.
Buick should go after Lexus and Chrysler.
Zeta would add plenty to everyone's plate.

 

"Going upmarket" is the wrong term here. The correct term is "Going back to basics".

GM's product lines became blured over the years. In the 70s, GM push the Cadillac to sell at volume, and if memory serves correct, Cadillac's price didn't rise as much as everything else in the 70s, basically narrowing the price gap with GM's other offerings.

Pontiac was no longer the "Excitement" division, since it pulled the same customers as Chevrolet. Oldsmobile's Cutlass became America's best selling car for many years in the 70s, essentially turning Olds into a middle America car division. Argubly, only Buick held it's position as a "Doctor's" car, but even Omegas and Skylarks brought in people who wanted fancy Novas and Chevelles.

All GM's doing now is moving each division back to it's original positions. Pontiac is moving away from Chevrolet, Buick is taking the spot they traditionally have as the car to have if you don't want something as flashy as a Cadillac. Meanwhile, Cadillac is moving back as an premium American brand.

Personally, I think Cadillac has gone a little too far (I'm still going to therapy over that Escalade I saw at the San Francisco show with a $70,000 price tag), but IMO the rest of GM's lineup is right on target.