Oh boy... where to start...

Let's start with the Silverado SS, because it's easy and I need to warm up...

Silverado SS (Ext. Cab) - who cares. Two of them ROTTING on the local dealer's lot. Lightning guys keep having accidents at the intersection it sits on from laughing too hard.

Silverado SS (Reg. cab) - who cares. They'll rot too. GO BIG OR GO HOME. Maybe now I can only pay $35,000 to have the pleasure of getting a$$-raped by Lightnings.

Z16 Corvette - After the stunningly warm reaction to the 50th anniversary stickers, thanks for another wonderful set of improvements... we really need a 10 lbs. lighter FAWKING HOOD and some paint for the bargain basement price of $3000-$5000. Jesus H. Christ. WHO GAVE ALL THE ENGINEERS AND MARKETING PEOPLE LABOTOMIES??? FOR 5 FOOKING LARGE I'LL MAKE MY OWN CARBON FIBER HOOD.

GTO - 40hp short of where it ought to be. Cadillac/Corvette be damned - better yet, give the Corvette and CTSV 450hp and EVERYBODY'S HAPPY - except Ford and BMW WHICH IS THE WHOLE DAMNED POINT. Now we find out the terrific news that SLP will be able to sell us $3000 hoods yet again. And I thought I had to buy a Corvette to get a $3000 hood.... maybe SLP will throw in a $500 sticker for us. Oh RAPTURE!

CTSv - At $36,000 (base CTSv) you have the keys to the kingdom. At $52,000 this car has NO PRAYER.

Saturn "Red Line" - Making a big deal about a 250hp Vue is... well... stupid. The supercharger kits for the Ion are not yet available, and don't put out enough power anyway. Since Chrysler is so far up I-75 that nobody at GM knows what they are doing, I'll be kind enough to point out the 214hp SRT-4, which is apparently within a hair's width of cutting sub-14 quarter mile times.

 

Hmmm. have you been taking your fiber?

I'd love to respond point by point, but i'm too tired to waste my time tonight.

Maybe tomorrow i'll make a good rebuttal post, we'll see.

 

A 390+ hp reg cab Silverado SS would be good, esp with no carpet, no a/c, no power door locks or power windows Id buy that in a second, esp with the cool old style shift ball. We now have SS's on two lots (saw the other one today on the way to work), both selling for under sticker.

Thats about all I disagree on. The Z16 vette thing I totally agree with, that was probably a larger disappointment than anything else this year. The C5 was the best Vette and possibly the best GM vehicle ever, why not give it a proper send off? The Z06 is not a proper send off since its been there for, what, 3 years now?

I would add in the XLR performance, or lack there of. 315 hp at 6200ish RPM is pretty fun, but not $73,000 fun. There shouldnt have even been an XLR, just an XLRv that launched the whole "v" line, which would be the supposed supercharged version we're getting the 2nd model year.

Yea, you can argue that performance doesnt sell cars, but it puts asses in the showroom.

I also want to bitch about the label my generation is getting about wanting hideous vehicles that we can haul our surfboards around in. I dont own a surfboard, nor will I probably ever since I live in Ohio. I dont care that I can spray down an interior with a hose, cleaning my interior is fun with Power Out and windex. And Im sure as hell not going to drive something that's perfectally square, or overly round. The only practical car out there I kinda like is the Vibe/Matrix, but I still wouldnt buy one. Dont give me the crap about buying those type of cars because they're AWD and handle well in the winter because Ive driven an Fbody for 3 winters with no problem and last year it was a FWD 91 Cavalier and that was more than sufficient, even for our bad winter this year.

Good ranting thread

 

I can't say I disagree with anything that PacerX says, except that a REGULAR CAB Silverado SS could sell with a decent powertrain. Lightning and SRT-10 are probably going to 500 HP with $50,000+ pricetags, so if Silverado can put out 400 or so and undercut the competition significantly in price it will be a good buy. NO sport truck should be an extended cab. I really don't understand the logic in what we have right now.

As far as the Z16, I believe Chevy just wanted to be able to say that the Vette is the first production car with a carbon fiber body panel. Saving a whopping 10 pounds won't make a difference in the performance of the car so again I'm a little stumped at the logic of this. Like someone else said, it's amazing that S.S. had to fight tooth and nail for a million dollars to do the machined 35th Anniversary Camaro wheels yet they'll blow this kind of money on a Corvette hood that has no functionality either performance or appearance-wise.

 

Rumor has it that the GTO will have a higher production HP number. Remember this thing will have a guzzler tax, which an LS1 has never come close to.

 

Also the performance truck market is miniscule. I think Ford sells like 2000 Lightnings a year out of the almost 900,000 F-Series trucks they sell! What GM has done is make a truck with a bit more performance than you average one that is much more practicle in terms of towing and doing general truck things. You can only put like 800lbs in a Lightning. You can put much more in a Silverado SS, plus it has AWD. I bet not one person in the board actually has the money to go out and but a 450HP Silverado SS if they bought one out......yet at least a few here might be swayed by something a little better than an SS but usable. IMO if GM is gonna spend it's money on performance I would rather see it go to cars (new Camaro) than some 450 HP truck that will be lucky to sell a few thousand.

 

I really like the SS despite the 345hp rating. It's practical, has AWD, and it looks good. I just wished they'd have atleast lowered it a bit more. I have a feeling the extra power will come sometime down the line. Maybe they'll up the power in 05 or 06. They should just drop in a slightly detuned 400+hp c6 motor and everyone would be happy.

I wouldn't buy it though. Not with Lightning's and S/c'ed HD editions still around.

 

Anyone noticed they have an 8.1L 500 HP crate motor?

GM always waits to show all thier cars

 

Why do people keep writing Z16 for the Z06???

PacerX, good rant I think you see a trend here at GM, ya have to pay for performance and exclusivity. Thats something other manufactures have done for a long time now GM is cashing in. I guess we the buying public are to blame becuase we let great deals like $22K Z28's slip through our hands and bought $55K H2's like they are going out of style!

Right now Ford, and to an extent Chrysler is answering the call but not all our needs, GM still has us on hold for the next available operator....

 

They are quoting the new RPO (Z16) for the commemorative vette with the Z06 engine ...


PacerX rant on!

 

Funny and extremely great rant!

I rant almost bi-daily, so it's not often I get on a roll like that!

Talking to 2 separate GM reps over this since December, the seemingly standard issue response something like "Lightning is a limited edition truck, while the Silverado SS will be made in volumes".

......Yea, that's what my reaction was too.

Corvette's new "special edition" shouldn't surprise anyone. Remember the reaction when we complained about the tape & badge treatment on the anniversairy Camaro? "Those wheels cost $12 million dollars!!"

BTW, Branden, The F150 Lightning has a payload of 1,400 pounds making it a genuine 3/4 ton pickup truck. It's the Syclone from GMC that had a 500 pound payload.

Lightning production ranges generally between 5,000-7,500 units per year. It also does the quarter at well over 100mph, & will drop well below 13 seconds with just a pulley switch, .....and it STILL sells for only $32,515!

......OR, you can go pay$40,010 for the slower, and "unlimited production", cosmetics of the Silverado SS with the exact same engine that you can get in in a standard issue 2500 (for well under $29,000!).

Your choice.

BTW, straight from SVT's top guy, they have ALOT more they are holding back in their arsenal. I think if he has something standing by to outrun a Viper powered 500hp V10 dodge Ram SRT-10, it's safe to say that same powerplant will make shortwork of an 8.1 500hp "crate" motor Chevy "may" install someday.

That 500hp 2005 Lightning concept seems to be just the tip.

 

SIlverado SS SWB: No way.. they would sell and sell 5-figures with little effort. I'm talking at least 10 - 12K units a year.

GTO: If ever there was an under-rated car, this would have to be it. Personally I'll be looking for 400HP.

CTS/CTSv pricing: Couldn't have said it any better! I agree with everything else you said.

gt

 

BTW, GTO's 340 horsepower rating IS underrated by at least 25-30 horsepower, and torque is also underrated, but supposedly by a GREATER amount.

 

1. The F150 Ligntning is not a 3/4 ton truck by any stretch of the imagination, although it does have the tranny of Super Duty. If it was a true 3/4 ton, it wouldn't have an EPA fuel economy listing.

2. It isn't fair to compare the Silverado SS with the Lightning on the basis of cost. The Silverado is an AWD extended cab with an LT level of standard accessories. The outgoing Lightning was a 2wd, regular cab. Chevy is selling a practical performance upgrade on a "comfort oriented" pick-up. Unlike the Lighting, it wasn't intended to be a single purpose 1/4 burner.

3. Your value comparison between the SS and the 2500HD isn't entirely fair either. Sure, you could buy a $29,000 3/4 ton, but it wouldn't have a comparable level of equipment to the SS. We have to remember we are living in an era where trucks are starting from overinflated base prices. In value terms, the Silverado SS is a relatively modest upgrade from the Silverado LT. For what you're getting, the cost differential is probably less than the percentage difference was between the Camaro Z28 and SLP produced SS.

For the people who are still frothing at the mouth over the Silverado SS being "extended cab only," consider that the leather-equiped Silverado LT doesn't come with a regular car either.

4. I don't especially like the Silverado SS, but I don't hate it either. The Escalade drivetrain transplant would have been more appealing in the Avalanche or Tahoe - but that would stepped on some toes at the Cadillac Division. Anyway, if someone wants the "Cadillac of Performance Pick-up Trucks" the Silverado SS is the truck to buy. When you consider that there is $5,000 of dealer mark-up on this truck (not including dealer cash or holdback), these vehicles are alot more affordable than they seem.

 

Guess all these articles are wrong then:

*"Tweaks to the spring rates, working in conjunction with Bilstein dampers, raise the SVT Lightning's payload rating by 600 lbs. to a total of 1400 lbs".
http://www.autointell-news.com/News-...e-19-02-p9.htm
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/020618/11/n4q1.html

*"Maximum Payload: 1400 lbs".
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/new/2003/...denav..9.Ford*

*"...When it comes to towing, if that's what you think you will be doing with your SS, the 7500 pound capable Silverado outdoes the Lightning by 2500 pounds with its Z82 heavy duty trailering package, though it only beats the Lightning by 90 pounds in payload at 1490 pounds..."
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2003...irstlook2.html

*"Payload rating increases from 800 pounds to 1,400 pounds".
http://www.lubbockautos.com/2003newcar/lightning.shtml

*Or from SVT's own website:[I]"1350 lbs. (612 kg)".
http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/


I can't believe you of all people say it isn't fair to compare the 2 on a price basis, Mr. GTO-at-$32,000-is-overpriced/ everyone-should-buy-a-$45,000-BMW-instead.

What you have accidently done is make a case against the SS. Lightnings offer a truly unique and special truck, with actual performance pieces (and it still is fully loaded, so we aren't comparing a loaded SS to a stripped Lightning by far!). SS is nothing other than a bumper, and a few labels. A comparable regular cab Silverado 2500 LT is about $28-30,000 (and it is faster than the SS due to lighter weight), and an extended cab version runs no more than $35,000. Again, if anyone wants to pay $5,000 for decals and a valence panel, go ahead.


Dealer mark-up is irrevelent. I using MSRP whenever I compare vehicles. There's always someone who claims their uncle so-and-so, or their best friend cut them a deal, or that they haggled the dealer down to below sticker. Dealer markups (or downs) have nothing to do with the company's price. You aren't the only one who refered to markups on price when comparing vehicles.

The end result is it's all a matter of taste. If you bought a Mercury Maurader because you liked the looks, wanted comfort, and didn't mind having a "sports" sedan that could be whipped by a Nissan family sedan, then you will be perfectly happy with a extended cab, AWD "SS" pickup truck that not only will be humiliated by Ford's far cheaper Lightning, but will be beated by regular cab, even cheaper Chevy 2500 LS Pickups as well.

We both agree on not liking the SS pickup. I think Chevrolet once again is using a label and a plastic piece or two to jack up the price of something you can get for far cheaper with no performance penality.

Remember in the 1970s when everyone else competed with the Pontiac Trans Am by sticking tape & labels to "performance cars", and charging quite a bit more than the same cars without? This is the exact same thing.