RiceEating5.0

The 03 cobra has been shown to "potentially" still run 4 tenths and 6mph faster. That's with an extra 200+lbs of weight and an IRS.

Happy 03 cobra hunting. Modified is anyones game. Comparing a modified car to a stock one is an Apples to oranges comparo. Even a heavily modified 11 second civic will hand the majority of supras, mustangs, camaros, vipers, corvettes, and about 99% of the cars out there their ***. How many 03 cobra's will stay stock? especially with the ease of bolt ons and 450+rwhp potential which is currently one of their best selling points. I don't want to quote the last MM&FF were they ran an 11.7@119mph with just a few bolt ons with room for much more.

Just a piece of info, the Ls-1 dosn't come with a "roots" blower. It'd be along the same lines as someone saying "why don't we go over to Sean Hyland and get his 5.0 stroker kit for the Dohc 4.6L and compare the stroker 5.0 Dohc to a stock 5.7L Ls-1 to make the displacement gap more fair". The Cobra doesn't come with a 5.0 and the Ls-1 doesn't come with a blower. Simple as that.

Really? The Cobra R wasn't underrated? the 96-98 and the 01 cobras weren't dead on their ratings like the dyno's show? funny how 1 year (99) makes the whole cobra line overrated. That must mean that the 360-38X rwhp the 03 cobras are putting out STOCK is bullsh** right? And the Ls-1's weren't that far from their rated hp till the 01/02's came with the z06 intake, etc... It isn't common for 98/99 Ls-1's to put out 300+rwhp.

Valid if the Ls-1 came STOCK with a supercharger which they don't. This isn't the same cobra motor as last years. There's a drop in compression, "revised" more blower friendly heads/cam/intake, and other internal changes. So N/A, there would have been more then a 20hp difference. There's the reliability, durability, warranty, sound, and a few other issues Ford had to take into consideration. Try getting that stock Ls-1 with the roots blower to last 100k+ miles. The ls-1 isn't a blower friendly engine. As far as potential, try cranking the boost up on that Ls-1. The cobra will be able to handle double the boost cause the engine is built to be boosted. The ls1 would need more work before you'll be able to handle anything above 6psi "reliabaly"

LPE only offers the kits for the vettes. i'm sure you can get it to fit an f-bod. At a $5,000 premium too. And unless it's putting out 460-480rwhp, it doesn't have 100rwhp on the Cobra. Maybe in term of rate hp, but as we now know, the blown cobras are putting out more then the rated Hp.

IZ28

I agree with your post and this quote. But any1 should be able to recognize the Camaro symbol too. Thats not the thing, its making the car have ties to what it is. In looks, the new GTO practically has nothing at all.

ProudPony

IZ28 - I agree with you 100%. I was pointing out that the original Mustang icon (the running horse across the red/white/blue bars) has NEVER changed, while we have had some heated discussions in here even, about how the Camaro moniker and the surnames HAVE changed. Some are disgruntled about the blending of SS and Z/28, some have issues with the colors in the Z/28 moniker, etc. If GM had never messed with those monikers, nobody would be unhappy, because there would have never been any difference to discuss. And I was implying that the same goes for the GTO thing...

The issue to me is to CHANGE THE CAR THROUGH TIME- MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND KEEP IT MODERN FOR SURE, BUT KEEP SOME OF THE CUES THAT SET IT APART FROM OTHER CARS SACRED. Don't do "retro", don't go extreme, but don't leave your roots behind either. Like you said, "ties to what it is/was."

guionM

I can perfectly understand if GTO isn't some people's cup of tea. It isn't trying to be a Camaro or Firebird, but it's more of a step up for people who love fast performance cars but want something more practical, comfortable, and better made.

Ford once had this covered with the Turbo T-Birds of the 80s and the supercharged birds of most of the 90s. I went from a 85 Mustang to an 89 Thunderbird SC (though I continued to own or drive an assortment of Special service Mustangs till a couple of years ago). Monte Carlo SSs did it for Chevrolet till it went FWD. Right now, GM has nothing to offer someone moving to a more comfortable fast ride. GTO will offer that.

That's why I'm pretty baffled at some who are slamming GTO because it doesn't have scoops, or doesn't look retro, which seems to all boil down to the fact the GTO name is on someone's pedastal (which would probally be shattered if you looked up the old GTO's actual performance figures), and the fact the car doesn't have the scoops 7 flamboyance of a WS6 Trans Ams.

A few years ago, Pontiac displayed a GTO concept which had all the cues from past GTOs you could ever want.... and you think Aztek's design is bad. The new GTO is understated, faster than an LT1 F-body, and depending on the final torque & gearing, may even be only a blink slower than the 4th gen LS1.

quick, I agree with you. When Camaro comes back it should be much like the G35 coupe (with a lower price & a V8 engine) which evidently is where Mustang seems to be going.

Park a G35 next to a Volvo C30, or a really nice looking Honda Accord coupe, and you see it's 2 different cars appealing to 2 different markets. Neither market is wrong, and slamming one for not being the other is ridiculous, especially if they both came from the same company.

Dan Baldwin

Er, wasn't the original GTO pretty much externally IDENTICAL to a more pedestrian Pontiac model? Also, the '93-'97 Z28 bears a more than passing resemblance to a Geo Storm. But it still looks GREAT, one of THE best looking cars of the 90s, IMO. I think the new GTO bears a resemblance to the grand am and other ponchos, but overall looks WAY cooler. Also, referring to the original post, who ever said the Pontiac GTO was a SPORTS car?! F-bodies aren't sports cars either, BTW.

Dan Baldwin
'95 Z28 M6 convertible, muscle/pony car
'91 240SX, slow and boring-looking, but more of a sports car than the Z28
'71 240Z, 3.1 NA inline 6, slays Vipers, Z06s, 911 turbos, and Cobra replicas at the race track: http://users.rcn.com/comscc/results/nhis0902.htm

DevilRide1

My wife made that comment to me, unfortunately in a derogatory manner, when she first saw the "new" Camaros in '93. She said " it looks like someone stepped on a GEO storm...". This was when she was condsidering one. Oh well...


And, yes, the original GTO looked just like it's more pedestrian cousin save for the GTO badging.

Personally, I think the new GTO is very cool and I will probably buy one.

cheers,

David
CZ28 member from the begining
formerly 67LT1
formerly DevilRide
my car

whuzizname

There are other cars in the market that meet the specs listed above or are comparable. But I wouldn't buy any of them any more than the "GTO" because, like the "GTO", they lack charisma.

Granted, it's a subjective thing, but an enthusiast's car has to be more than a list of specs. It's got to have a personality, some "ummph"!

IZ28

Well GM likes to change their symbols and stuff. But exactly what you said here.

BigDarknFast

Here - as a convenience for readers with little time, I'll compress this thread into just a few key lines (pls pardon me for using editorial license during the compression cycle):

1. "I hate the GTO because I'm mad it's not just like today's FBody! It doesn't matter what features/advantages it has."

2. "Who's going to buy it? It cannot be afforded by anyone if it gets brutally shoved over the magic line of $30k by greedy, heartless dealers!"

3. "I hate the styling because it's not as flashy as that fine 1999 concept car! GTO's have always been the king of flash."

4. "Hey guys don't forget the mighty Mustang. Even little girls recognize and admire it on the street... maybe that's why it's so popular with women, and the universal success we all love today! Plus it offers many roughed-in air scoops for those who choose to later add body ventilation."

5. "It's tragic they are calling it the GTO. At least twelve, maybe more, potential buyers will become alienated and leave their dealer in a huff."

6. "Hello! Have you noticed it offers RWD, M6 or A4, IRS, a real back seat, a torquey LS1? The naming/styling - remember the original GTO, the one virtually indistinguishable from a Tempest? Oh... never mind. It's not meant for everyone. Your Mustang awaits you sir (ma'am?)."

whuzizname

Besides the homely appearance of the new "GTO", I think one of the objections to it is that it's just a quick, low-budget badge-engineering job of an existing car. Would half as many people care if they called it something else other than "GTO"?

Ummm....I think I'll just get a Nissan 350Z next time around.

Z284ever

You know guys, maybe it's time for the GTO...if not completely redefining itself..to at least create a new paradigm for itself.

...after all it's been nearly 30 years since you could buy a new one (most of you weren't even born when new GTO's roamed the street).

The Goats of the '60s and early '70s were truly legendary...but by '74 the concept was deader than a door nail.

Blame emissions, gas prices, insurance companies, GM management or whatever...but near the end no one wanted them anymore and GM didn't want to build them anymore either.

I get the impression that some of you would be happy if the GTO came back on the S10 chassis...as long as it had hood scoops, hide away headlights, hood mounted tach, V8 and cost $23K, (ok..maybe that would be sort of neat )

This new one is going to be a success....and it will start a whole new generation of GreaT Ones.

Pentatonic

I agree completely.

Pentatonic

Fit and Finish? My interior fits great...and there is plenty of clearcoat on the paint to keep the car sparkling.

Independent rear suspension? I hope the wheels won't hop if someone decides to mod the new GTO.

A usable rear seat?? I like buying sports cars...not family sedans.

Scraping? My car has scraped once going up a driveway....no damage, no big deal.

An old design? Just because a design is old doesn't mean it is inneffective, or inferior. The design of the internal combustion engine has been around since the Titanic, yet everyone still uses it. It's been refined of course, but the basic design is the same.

A modern dashboard? I guess.

Oh and the retro argument...I said the NAME is retro, not the CAR.

Ude-lose

i can't help but think that people can't connect in their heads that this car has a 350hp ls1 + 6 speed which can cruze in total comfort seating 4 adults, and yet when the pedal is mashed there is the roar of 8 cylinders , the racing of the tacho up to the 6 grand mark and the violent snapping of the tail sideways as the gear changes, that ultimate v8 feeling as all previous thoughts of its tame looks are defenstrated, and the new feeling of sitting on a rocket with the looks that wont get harrased from the fuzz and luxury that will have you itching to go for long across america drives.

you may not agree with me .... but if nothing else when it appears just take it for a test drive, thats all ... and if you still don't like it well then you can say "i told you so !!!"

ReznorZ28

I agree with you completely... I know the GTO has great performance & ride quality, but it is a GTO and I think it should still have some of the classic cues of the GTO if they want to use the name. Granted that alot of people are saying that the 02 camaro doesnt look like the 67, but if you lined up every year of the camaro you can easily see the slow transformation it went though... the 98-02's look like the 93-97.. the 3rd gens share ALOT of the same styling cues from the 4th... the 3rd gens also share some styling cues off the 2nd gens and so on... if you lined em all up you would see a pretty clean metamorphasis. So I think the camaro comes to show that you dont have to be retro to still carry on a resemblence and retain its heritage.... the GTO on the other hand, doesnt have any resembence to its classic ancestors and I just think thats a shame. And lets just get this straight, I dont expect the GTO to replace the camaro/firebird.. the only car that could do that is the next camaro/firbird.