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Oil companies conspiring to kill diesel powered cars? MB exec thinks so.......

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Old Jun 23, 2008 | 10:24 PM
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Oil companies conspiring to kill diesel powered cars? MB exec thinks so.......

........ and the evidence may prove he's actually right!

(Old timers here might remember the writer's name )

Mercedes exec says Big Oil conspiring to kill U.S. diesel market
Michael Taylor. (Leftlane News June 10th)

Mercedes-Benz has accused profiteering oil companies of ripping off diesel buyers and fears such action may kill the U.S. diesel passenger car market in its infancy. While oil prices have hit new highs, the pump price of diesel has surged to be more than a dollar a gallon higher than gasoline in some U.S. states, even though it is cheaper and less energy intensive to produce.


And Mercedes-Benz, which introduced its E320 BlueTEC diesel passenger car into the U.S. in 2006, is fighting back, with Daimler board member, Dr Thomas Weber, insisting there was no demand-driven reason for diesel prices to be so high.

“We knew this surge was coming in the U.S.,” Dr Weber, who heads up the Mercedes-Benz Research and Development division, told Leftlane.

“I believe there is definitely optimization of earnings by oil companies to take advantage of the higher usage of diesel today. There is not another plausible or economic explanation.”

While diesel sales are up in Europe, the economic downturn has lowered volumes in the U.S., where it is primarily a heavy transport fuel.

Even so, the U.S. Government’s Energy Information Administration reveals that diesel users have suffered more than double the gas price rises in the last year. Once cheaper, diesel is now significantly more expensive than gas everywhere in the United States.

The EIA’s data shows that while gas costs 443 cents a gallon in California, diesel there costs 499.2 cents and, in a nationwide trend, it is 72 cents more expensive on the East Coast and 63 cents more expensive in the Mid West.

While gasoline has risen 113 cents a gallon in California in the last 12 months, diesel has surged by 199.5 cents in the same period and its pump price surge has outstripped gasoline by 95.7 cents on the East Coast and 95.3 cents in the Mid West.

“The most important driver is a huge trend in diesel use in Europe, but that doesn’t explain it,” Dr Weber insisted.

“There are limitations on capacity on the refining sites, but that’s not it, either, really.

“Diesel production costs are less than the gasoline production costs so the only idea you can find is that these companies are in the business of making a profit, so that is what they do now.”

The EIA’s pump price breakdowns seem to confirm Mercedes-Benz’s allegations. While the cost of the basic crude oil accounts for 73 percent of the pump price of gasoline, it only accounts for 61 percent of the diesel price.

Instead, the EIA figures show oil companies are slugging diesel buyers by more than double diesel’s refining costs compared to gasoline. Only 10 percent of the gasoline price is in refining, while that figure leaps to 21 percent for diesel.


Nevertheless, Dr Weber predicted the massive gap between gasoline and diesel prices in the U.S., Australia and Europe would soon come to an end and, even in the meantime, they would not affect Daimler’s upcoming plans to hit the U.S. market in force with its diesel engines.

“For the customer, if they experience the advantages of diesel, they will stay with diesel anyway,” he insisted.

“The technology is 20 to 30 percent more efficient than gasoline and has more torque at lower rpm and that’s what most buyers actually use.”

Benz will launch BlueTEC diesel versions of its R-, GL and ML-class SUVs in October after receiving 50-state registration approval for the technology in March this year.
Diesel is the quickest, easiest, and most painless way to increase automobile fuel economy. Up to 30% according to most estimates.

That's with "right-now" technology, that's cheaper than Hybrids, and less likely to make farmers choose to sell thier crops as food or fuel.
Old Jun 23, 2008 | 10:42 PM
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Diesel is $5.09 in New York...
Old Jun 23, 2008 | 11:00 PM
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Last I heard Mickey T was over in Italy?

Anyway, just shows how powerful BIG OIL is, if even the best known automobile brand in the world is accusing them of foul play.

Now if only GM became a supplier of Hydrogen fuel and an energy competitor...
Old Jun 23, 2008 | 11:08 PM
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You already know how I feel about this topic...


Here's some interesting reading from the lounge...
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=615001

It moved me so much that I finally made my first post in the lounge in my 8 years of being a member on this board.
Does THAT say anything?!?! I did say things there that I would not in this forum - using the more informal setting at an advantage.

In short - Yes - they are fleecing us.
Can the next pres do anything about it? That's the $1-million question.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by guionM
That's with "right-now" technology, that's cheaper than Hybrids, and less likely to make farmers choose to sell thier crops as food or fuel.
I agree with your sentiments overall, but you don't think that widespread diesel adoption in the U.S. won't make some producers look toward turning their soybeans into biodiesel rather than cattle feed?
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 10:43 AM
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I continue to stand behind my previous statements. Hybrids are a gimmick and diesel (particularly biodiesel) is a better long term solution.

As consummers we need to demand more improved diesel powered cars and as voters we need to demand that the government step in a regulate the oil industry.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 11:59 AM
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“I believe there is definitely optimization of earnings by oil companies to take advantage of the higher usage of diesel today. There is not another plausible or economic explanation.”
Does anyone else find it odd that Mercedes-Benz is calling out another company for raising prices in order to make a profit? Wow.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
I continue to stand behind my previous statements. Hybrids are a gimmick and diesel (particularly biodiesel) is a better long term solution.
All depends on one's driving style. The majority of commuters drive less than 40 miles and 1.2 hours each day, which points to an average speed of around 35 MPH. That makes a compelling argument for a hybrid, with start/stop architectures working best at lower prices and fancier "strong" solutions (like Toyota HSD and GM Two Mode) becoming economical at prices in the $5-6 range.

If you drive a mile, hop on the expressway, and then drive 40 miles at 70 MPH - like my wife does everyday - then a diesel is certainly the right option.

Make fuel expensive enough (or the vehicle big enough), and a diesel/hybrid powertrain will eventually look attractive. That's a ways off for passenger cars and light trucks, but there are people working on it.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 12:31 PM
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They are in fact charging whatever they want for diesel just because they can. The bigger question was why weren't they charging that much for it back in the day?
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Bryant
All depends on one's driving style. The majority of commuters drive less than 40 miles and 1.2 hours each day, which points to an average speed of around 35 MPH. That makes a compelling argument for a hybrid, with start/stop architectures working best at lower prices and fancier "strong" solutions (like Toyota HSD and GM Two Mode) becoming economical at prices in the $5-6 range.

If you drive a mile, hop on the expressway, and then drive 40 miles at 70 MPH - like my wife does everyday - then a diesel is certainly the right option.

Make fuel expensive enough (or the vehicle big enough), and a diesel/hybrid powertrain will eventually look attractive. That's a ways off for passenger cars and light trucks, but there are people working on it.
Let me clarify. I'm not saying hybrid technology doesn't act as a fair mileage extender. What I am saying is suggesting that it is greener than other technologies out there (like biodiesel) and is saving the planet is a gimmick at best.

Here in northern California, many Prius drivers use their cars to commute to San Francisco on a daily basis. Most of them use highways to get there (which means they're not in electric mode), and travel as single occupants, but have special stickers from the State that allow them to use HOV lanes and cross toll bridges into San Francisco for FREE. Gimmick.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
...allow them to use HOV lanes ...
I know several areas where that is *not* the case.

The powertrain add-on for a BAS system versus a full hybrid or a dual-mode hybrid is obviously dramatically different. In terms of crunching numbers, usability, or saving the environment, a good diesel makes a *lot* of sense.

A small diesel is going to be simpler, cheaper, more reliable, have more torque, trunk space, and probably be lighter as well- than a full hybrid gasoline engine. Better mpg? That is also possible.

A BAS on a diesel might really have some advantages, as diesels and idling is bad mojo.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ProudPony
You already know how I feel about this topic...


Here's some interesting reading from the lounge...
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=615001

It moved me so much that I finally made my first post in the lounge in my 8 years of being a member on this board.
Does THAT say anything?!?! I did say things there that I would not in this forum - using the more informal setting at an advantage.

In short - Yes - they are fleecing us.
Can the next pres do anything about it? That's the $1-million question.
Very interesting. Lindsey Williams' website went offline, his reason given was that he's retiring. His video was pulled from Google. They were also pulled from YouTube just as I was downloading it... I managed to get just 4 out of 8 videos.

Found another website which hosts his video in full still, and managed to rip it (Firefox + DownloadHelper plugin), here:

http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion...yWilliams.html

Have not watched it completely yet, but read about it in the thread from the lounge.

I think it's foolish not to think that certain powers control the playing field, and I have been reading up on / following NWO. Very interesting information from your post.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HAZ-Matt
They are in fact charging whatever they want for diesel just because they can. The bigger question was why weren't they charging that much for it back in the day?
I was betting on the fact that before USLD, the US's diesel quality was laughably the worst in the western hemisphere, if not among the worst in the world.

You have to pay for that upgrade somehow and sometimes quick upgrades are a painful bullet to swallow...
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 01:35 PM
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I've been saying for years, ever since I saw the price of diesel higher than regular gas, that this is done on purpose. Diesel is consistently cheaper in Europe, and coupled with better fuel economy of diesel vehicles results in diesel vehicles operating at about 50% of gasoline counterparts.

If you buy a diesel vehicle here, the operating advantage goes to about 0-10%, and the additional cost of the diesel engine is not really worth it.
Old Jun 24, 2008 | 08:51 PM
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I watched the video in its entirety last night...

Some things I already suspected... like the US waging war on Iraq was as a result of Saddam reverting to selling oil in Euro. I've already posted links regarding this so I won't go there again.

What I didn't "know" about was...

- the invasion of Kuwait was a set up (Bush Snr encouraging Saddam to invade Kuwait... only to have 'valid' reason to declare war on Iraq).

- the oil already discovered on the north slope of Alaska (which would be enough to supply the US for over 200yrs) is known to a few people and is now classified information. On that subject, I learned a few things about oil discovery - like measurements taken in depth, pressure etc... to gauge an estimate of how much oil is apparently available.

- that it costs $5/gallon for the Saudis to bring the oil to surface, while it was estimated that it would only cost $3/gallon for the US to bring the Alaskan oil to surface. This figure does not include transportation costs, as stated in the video.

Enough of the summary, what the video seems to highlight is that oil is definitely not a scarce resource as some would have you believe. The real issue is about paying off America's debt, which is hardly news to some.



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