AronZ28

If that was the case, then the Solstice should have been shown at the 2004 or 2005 Detriot show.

General Z

I agree, if you are going to show us near production, concepts, don't show them 3.5 years before they will be released.

General Z

SSR debuted looking near production ready at the 2000 NAIAS. When could you actually walk onto a lot and buy one? Sometime in 2003 I think, but not sure exactly.

Z28x

I imagine then the BRX will be a concept yet be 95% production like the G-force Grand Prix or 300C were a few years ago. The "concept" will probably just have bigger rims and shaved door handles.

Chrome383Z

I see your point. But on the flip side 95% of the John Doe public doesn't pay attention to the Auto Shows. Once they see them on the road they're like "DAMN I have to get one." So again I do see your point, but I don't believe it will have any real effect on the outcome of the Solstice. I predict a hit.

General Z

You don't think that the public cares about the auto shows? NAIAS has over a million in attendence most years. Not sure abotu New York, LA, Chicago.

Plus, the media is usually all over it.

I may have poor nationwide opinions, having grown up in southeast Michigan with a father who was an engineer for GM.

Chrome383Z

Well, all I can go by is my own personal experience. Been a car nut all my life as well as all of my friends. Only know 1 or 2 ppl that make it to the car shows. I think most ppl watch the news and thats probably all they see of it. Maybe some hit the internet to check out some pictures.

And even if they did, unfortunately most ppl now adays just look to see what the Foreign Automakers are coming out with so it's a moot point. I expect the Solstice to grab a lot of potential "Import" buyers, especially at the low MSRP. Although, this is all IMHO.

General Z

I agree that the Solstice will probably do well, in spite of all that's been mentioned above.

Hoodshaker

For the record, when Solstice was shown as a concept it was NOWHERE NEAR PRODUCTION. There were no plans to produce the car. Public reaction was overwhelming, an Bob Lutz decided to ram rod it into production. Have we forgotten what was under the skin of that concept? Once they decided to build it, they then designed a totally new RWD platform to build it on and brought it to market in record time. In addition, I don't know of a GM car in my lifetime that had as many sold orders at introduction as the Solstice. Considering that virtually nothing under the skin of that car existed at its first showing, GM is to be applauded for bringing a production car to life with minimal exterior changes.

Z28x

I agree with you. I know a bunch of people who saw the Solstice for the first time on the apprentice.

guionM

Agree with much of what you said, but consider these items:

1. The Ford GT was also shown (as a concept with no plans for production) at that same auto show.

2. Both the Ford GT and the Solstice were set by their own manufacturers(!) as the vehicle to show how adept they were at bringing out a vehicle in record time by streamlining their respective development system.

3. The Ford GT used all new parts, with very little shared with existing Fords. Even the engine casting is all new. GM used as many existing parts on the Solstice to keep costs and time down.

4. GM publically bragged they could take a car "from concept to production" in 18 to 24 months. GM has the most advanced design and engineering supercomputers around.

5. The Ford GT is scheduled to be on it's last year of production (already) shortly after the Solstice finally comes out.

6. Finally, GM (as do most automakers) traditionally takes 4-5 years to develop a new car from scratch. The Solstice, with supposedly better improved development methods, took 3 1/2.

The problem ISN'T GM's engineers, or certification. It's the fact that GM's approval process is whacked! It's that too many people can stand in the way of, and kill a perfectly good car under development. And finally, it's that GM has plenty of people in it's ranks that willing to create problems if they get their toes stepped on or feel slighted.

Alot of this should be solved now that Rick Wagoner has taken over North America himself.

Things should be less petty if the person who's running the company is the person you're screwing with by blocking or sidetracking something that shouldn't have been in the 1st place (there's more than a few people who were giving Bob Lutz heartburn because they got their feeling hurt).

General Z

Thanks for the above info.

Using the NAIAS as the release date of the Solstice, counting towards September or October, it will be around, or at least 45 months since the 2002 NAIAS.

Don't even get me started on the HHR. No article will be written about it that doesn't reference it copying design cues and formula from the PT Cruiser. So, based on that logic, the HHR is so late to the party, that the PT Cruiser is getting a new modesl soon, isn't it?

My wife, who knows nothing abont cars saw one on the road the other day, and made it a point to call me and ask, "What is that PT Cruiser rip off that I just passed?"

Maybe we will see a new Camaro at the end of the current Mustang's life cycle.

Chrome383Z

guionM,

I agree with most of your points. BUT one thing to mention is that the GT is more of a "Specialty car" with nowhere NEAR the production numbers that the Solstice will likely have. Alot more "manufacturing and associated problems" to work out then a specialty car with a small amount sold. I don't think that's comparing apples to oranges.

Ford GT ~1,500 per year

Solstice ~??? 50k? I have no clue here. Anybody know?

Hoodshaker

guionM, I agree 100% with your assessment of what slows down the process at GM (and others to one degree or another), but imo the Ford GT does not prove that point. As alluded to by Chrome383Z. the Ford GT is a $100,000+ halo car for the entire Ford company, which had many more resources available to it. They even pulled people out of retirement to get it all together. Take a look at all the stops they pulled out -> http://www.autointell.com/nao_compan...d-gt-40-02.htm . Amazing indeed, but not feasable for a $20k roadster.

Privateer454

Also, I feel it is more important to GM to have a flawless launch with the Solstice then to have brought it to market a year earlier and have the kind of problems the GT had. They would have gotten a lot worse press for quality problems than for a delay to market.