Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
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Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Wifey took possession of her HHR on Friday evening, we drove to Canada and back on Saturday and putted around town a little bit buying a futon that day, and then putted around some more on Sunday, so I've got... oh... 500 miles or so behind the wheel of it and can do something of a review now...
Dealership Experience:
All in all, a good experience. Bill Fox Chevrolet in Rochester Hills, Michigan sold us the car. 0% interest over 72 months didn't hurt either. I usually won't take a car on a term that long, but hey... if there's no interest, why not? We usually pay ahead anyway.
The saleswoman was very busy, Bill Fox has sold... get this... something around 220 cars in the past WEEK. That's WEEK, not MONTH. They financing gal was very professional, and very nice too. Didn't even try to sell me Scotchgard for my already Scotchgarded seats (they all come with Scotchgard or an equivalent from the factory, don't waste your money...).
The saleswoman also was prepared to do the "this is how everything in the car works" spiel (showing us how to use the radio and such...) but I basically told her we wouldn't need that since... well... I know GM vehicles like the back of my hand.
And now on to the car itself...
2006 Chevrolet HHR 2LT, Sport Red Metallic
Medium Gray Interior
Engine: 2.4 Ecotec VVT 4 cyl
Power & Torque: 172hp @ 6000rpm, 162 ft. lbs. torque @ 5000rpm
Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Fuel Economy: 22 mpg city / 30 mpg highway
Fuel Range: ~420 miles
Fuel Type: Regular Unleaded
Curb Weight: ~3200 lbs.
Warranty: 3yrs/36,000 miles
Engine/Transmission/Economy:
Power is decent. Enough for passing, won't win many drag races, but isn't supposed to. There's no buzziness beyond what's expected from any 4 cylinder. Zero vibration in the passenger compartment.
Transmission is typical GM - absolutely seamless, can't even tell it's there.
Fuel economy is very good, the 400 mile range is nice.
Remote starter is WAAAAY cool! Especially in Michigan where it gets cold!!!
Exterior:
Paint was flawless, almost no orange peel. Paint match between the plastic bumpers and the steel panels is excellent.
3.5mm panels gaps... 3.5mm!?!?! That's almost unheard of on a mid/lower end car in most cases. Rivals Cadillac, made the RX300 it was parked next to at lunch one day look like it had been assembled out of Tinkertoys by preschoolers.
Chrome 17" wheels are very nice, along with the chrome accents all over the body.
Panel splits are... well... different, not bad - just different. The styling forces panel splits you wouldn't normally see. Takes the eye a little bit to adjust to.
Exterior trim was all well assembled, tight gaps. Only issue there is that the top of the windshield has no seal - meaning that the trough formed by the windshield there is exposed. Usually a no-no - not only from an appearance standpoint, but also from a noise standpoint.
The electronic latch for the hatchback release is a nice touch.
The chrome trim and gold Bowtie on the hatch look very nice.
The apperance of the chrome grill is excellent.
The windshield wipers have a nice, finished and styled appearance and there's a rear window wiper with a washer unit. Nice touch.
Door handles are solid feeling with little or any free play, the hinges and check system are dead silent.
The doors were adjusted correctly - no bad gaps and they close flush.
The hood itself is a sterling example of how to manage gaps and flushes in the area of hood to fender and hood to fascia gaps and flushes. In a word, design them so you don't have to manage them and they still look good. Excellent work.
Interior:
Initially, your fist impression is that the interior is very small, but once seated it is very, very well packaged and comfortable - much roomier than your eye tells you it is.
There's plenty of leg and shoulder room up front - even for me (small I ain't...), and plenty of leg room and shoulder room in the rear. My knees don't hit anything.
Seats were comfortable and supportive even on a long ride like we took. Not much shifting around to get comfortable on a long trip (that's a clear sign of a good seat). Great adjustment range fore/aft. The armrests were useful.
The seating position is fairly vertical, something like a truck or true SUV. It has a 6-way power driver's seat, a manual recliner on both seats and adjustable lumbar on both seats. The seat cover material is a very nice cloth - I prefer leather, wifey likes cloth. Leather is available.
There's a passive occupant sensor system for the passenger seat - if there's no occupant or a small occupant there, the air bags don't go "BOOM" during a collision. Excellent.
The folding seats are very nice and easy to use - you have to remove the head restraints, but that's no biggy. We fit a 6'6" futon (disassembled in the box) and mattress in the back with the end sticking out the hatch a bit. There are enough tie-downs available to get the job done.
Brake and throttle feel is excellent. The dead pedal isn't very useful for me, but it's there. I imagine I could adjust the seating position to make it feel better, but didn't fiddle with it to do it.
Nicely, I don't end up having to rest my right leg on the edge of the console - which is terribly uncomfortable on long rides.
Our vehicle has the Pioneer sound system in it, a 6-disc changer, Ipod compatibility and XM Radio. I have not yet attempted to blow my own head off with the radio volume-wise, so I can't evaluate the system at high power, but at the settings it was at it sounded very, very good. XM Radio is WAAAY cool. At ~$10/mth, I'm sold for life. The radio itself is simple to use and the controls are intuitive.
Fit in the interior is generally very good. Finish is excellent.
The gauges are well laid out and nice looking with their chrome accents. The Driver Information Center provided good information and was easy to use.
The High-Beam switch is now the European/Japanese "push forward" for brights style - which I don't like (minor gripe here), I prefer the GM standard "pull back for brights" style - but understand why it was done. "Flash to Pass" is done by pulling back on the stalk.
Window regulator switches are on the console center stack... meh... but there's isn't much room to put them on the door panels, so I get it.
Shifter is very nice. It's solid feeling. The shifter is well placed, and all the controls are easily reached.
The armrests are nice and solid also - very little cross-car free movement.
The parking brake is kinda buried under the armrests - but won't get used anyway (it's an automatic) so that's OK.
Two available cupholders in the center console - plenty cupholders enough.
There's a power port on the center stack, might consider adding another there.
There's a nice, covered, latching cubby hole in the center of the instrument panel on the top surface - good idea. The glove box is large and useful.
Almost all of the little cubby holes and nooks and crannies have a removeable and washable rubber liner - which is very nice. Makes cleaning them a snap.
YAY! There are retaining hooks for the floor mats in the front!!! No more "Creeping Floormat Syndrome"... except in the rear...
ZERO exposed fasteners, anywhere in the (easily visible) interior - very, very nice! Where there are fasteners, they're hidden by nice plastic covers which are countersunk into the trim panel - EXCELLENT!
An armrest cushion on the door panels would be nice, but they're still comfortable.
The HVAC system is relatively quiet, the A/C blows cold and the controls themselves are easily understood, have a nice feel, and have nice chrome accents.
The storage system in the rear compartment is very useful, there are about a half dozen ways to arrange it, and it came with a cargo net - all nice features.
And next... Here comes the constructive criticism...
Dealership Experience:
All in all, a good experience. Bill Fox Chevrolet in Rochester Hills, Michigan sold us the car. 0% interest over 72 months didn't hurt either. I usually won't take a car on a term that long, but hey... if there's no interest, why not? We usually pay ahead anyway.
The saleswoman was very busy, Bill Fox has sold... get this... something around 220 cars in the past WEEK. That's WEEK, not MONTH. They financing gal was very professional, and very nice too. Didn't even try to sell me Scotchgard for my already Scotchgarded seats (they all come with Scotchgard or an equivalent from the factory, don't waste your money...).
The saleswoman also was prepared to do the "this is how everything in the car works" spiel (showing us how to use the radio and such...) but I basically told her we wouldn't need that since... well... I know GM vehicles like the back of my hand.
And now on to the car itself...
2006 Chevrolet HHR 2LT, Sport Red Metallic
Medium Gray Interior
Engine: 2.4 Ecotec VVT 4 cyl
Power & Torque: 172hp @ 6000rpm, 162 ft. lbs. torque @ 5000rpm
Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Fuel Economy: 22 mpg city / 30 mpg highway
Fuel Range: ~420 miles
Fuel Type: Regular Unleaded
Curb Weight: ~3200 lbs.
Warranty: 3yrs/36,000 miles
Engine/Transmission/Economy:
Power is decent. Enough for passing, won't win many drag races, but isn't supposed to. There's no buzziness beyond what's expected from any 4 cylinder. Zero vibration in the passenger compartment.
Transmission is typical GM - absolutely seamless, can't even tell it's there.
Fuel economy is very good, the 400 mile range is nice.
Remote starter is WAAAAY cool! Especially in Michigan where it gets cold!!!
Exterior:
Paint was flawless, almost no orange peel. Paint match between the plastic bumpers and the steel panels is excellent.
3.5mm panels gaps... 3.5mm!?!?! That's almost unheard of on a mid/lower end car in most cases. Rivals Cadillac, made the RX300 it was parked next to at lunch one day look like it had been assembled out of Tinkertoys by preschoolers.
Chrome 17" wheels are very nice, along with the chrome accents all over the body.
Panel splits are... well... different, not bad - just different. The styling forces panel splits you wouldn't normally see. Takes the eye a little bit to adjust to.
Exterior trim was all well assembled, tight gaps. Only issue there is that the top of the windshield has no seal - meaning that the trough formed by the windshield there is exposed. Usually a no-no - not only from an appearance standpoint, but also from a noise standpoint.
The electronic latch for the hatchback release is a nice touch.
The chrome trim and gold Bowtie on the hatch look very nice.
The apperance of the chrome grill is excellent.
The windshield wipers have a nice, finished and styled appearance and there's a rear window wiper with a washer unit. Nice touch.
Door handles are solid feeling with little or any free play, the hinges and check system are dead silent.
The doors were adjusted correctly - no bad gaps and they close flush.
The hood itself is a sterling example of how to manage gaps and flushes in the area of hood to fender and hood to fascia gaps and flushes. In a word, design them so you don't have to manage them and they still look good. Excellent work.
Interior:
Initially, your fist impression is that the interior is very small, but once seated it is very, very well packaged and comfortable - much roomier than your eye tells you it is.
There's plenty of leg and shoulder room up front - even for me (small I ain't...), and plenty of leg room and shoulder room in the rear. My knees don't hit anything.
Seats were comfortable and supportive even on a long ride like we took. Not much shifting around to get comfortable on a long trip (that's a clear sign of a good seat). Great adjustment range fore/aft. The armrests were useful.
The seating position is fairly vertical, something like a truck or true SUV. It has a 6-way power driver's seat, a manual recliner on both seats and adjustable lumbar on both seats. The seat cover material is a very nice cloth - I prefer leather, wifey likes cloth. Leather is available.
There's a passive occupant sensor system for the passenger seat - if there's no occupant or a small occupant there, the air bags don't go "BOOM" during a collision. Excellent.
The folding seats are very nice and easy to use - you have to remove the head restraints, but that's no biggy. We fit a 6'6" futon (disassembled in the box) and mattress in the back with the end sticking out the hatch a bit. There are enough tie-downs available to get the job done.
Brake and throttle feel is excellent. The dead pedal isn't very useful for me, but it's there. I imagine I could adjust the seating position to make it feel better, but didn't fiddle with it to do it.
Nicely, I don't end up having to rest my right leg on the edge of the console - which is terribly uncomfortable on long rides.
Our vehicle has the Pioneer sound system in it, a 6-disc changer, Ipod compatibility and XM Radio. I have not yet attempted to blow my own head off with the radio volume-wise, so I can't evaluate the system at high power, but at the settings it was at it sounded very, very good. XM Radio is WAAAY cool. At ~$10/mth, I'm sold for life. The radio itself is simple to use and the controls are intuitive.
Fit in the interior is generally very good. Finish is excellent.
The gauges are well laid out and nice looking with their chrome accents. The Driver Information Center provided good information and was easy to use.
The High-Beam switch is now the European/Japanese "push forward" for brights style - which I don't like (minor gripe here), I prefer the GM standard "pull back for brights" style - but understand why it was done. "Flash to Pass" is done by pulling back on the stalk.
Window regulator switches are on the console center stack... meh... but there's isn't much room to put them on the door panels, so I get it.
Shifter is very nice. It's solid feeling. The shifter is well placed, and all the controls are easily reached.
The armrests are nice and solid also - very little cross-car free movement.
The parking brake is kinda buried under the armrests - but won't get used anyway (it's an automatic) so that's OK.
Two available cupholders in the center console - plenty cupholders enough.
There's a power port on the center stack, might consider adding another there.
There's a nice, covered, latching cubby hole in the center of the instrument panel on the top surface - good idea. The glove box is large and useful.
Almost all of the little cubby holes and nooks and crannies have a removeable and washable rubber liner - which is very nice. Makes cleaning them a snap.
YAY! There are retaining hooks for the floor mats in the front!!! No more "Creeping Floormat Syndrome"... except in the rear...
ZERO exposed fasteners, anywhere in the (easily visible) interior - very, very nice! Where there are fasteners, they're hidden by nice plastic covers which are countersunk into the trim panel - EXCELLENT!
An armrest cushion on the door panels would be nice, but they're still comfortable.
The HVAC system is relatively quiet, the A/C blows cold and the controls themselves are easily understood, have a nice feel, and have nice chrome accents.
The storage system in the rear compartment is very useful, there are about a half dozen ways to arrange it, and it came with a cargo net - all nice features.
And next... Here comes the constructive criticism...
Last edited by PacerX; Jul 10, 2006 at 09:32 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 676
From: Calgary
Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Nice review! The more I see those things around the more I like them.
The wife LOVES them. Not sure how the backseat would do with 2 babyseats though.... (plus a 6 year old as well)
The wife LOVES them. Not sure how the backseat would do with 2 babyseats though.... (plus a 6 year old as well)
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TIME:
First Features and Content...
Engine/Transmission:
1) Needs a 5spd automatic, the benefit to fuel economy and performance is undeniable. I know that essentially the HHR is a Cobalt from a powertrain standpoint, and that a 5spd automatic isn't available yet there, but it needs one - 2007 is a year too late, don't wait - get it done.
2) Howza 'bout a 220-260hp blown/turbo HHR SS? They're selling like hotcakes right now, but in a year or so that'll cool down - which is the perfect time to bring out a fire-breathing performance model.
3) E85. Must have E85 compatibility. Hopefully it is coming soon. Hybrids suck, E85 is the future.
Chassis:
1) ABS should be STANDARD across the board. No ifs, ands or buts. I disagree STRONGLY with the marketing decision that said "the others charge for it as an option, so we will too". Make ABS standard and then tell the world through advertising which car companies DON'T have standard ABS - with the not-so-subtle hint that they don't care about safety or their customers, and they're just rying to make a buck. Hammer the point home.
2) Include traction control in the 2LT package. The car is hot from a sales standpoint, option up the 2LT's and increase your margin.
3) For the "SS", if one is ever done, rear discs are a necessity. The rear drums on the current models are perfectly adequate - no sense in making them all disc/disc.
Interior:
1) Color selection... Basically every HHR you see on a dealer lot is built with a Medium Gray interior. The Cashmere and Ebony are rarer than hen's teeth. The Gray itself is... well... gray... and shockingly inoffensive... which is the point I guess.
2) How about some body color accents on the interior? It looks good, but a little more jazzing up wouldn't hurt.
Body:
Erm... I got nothing to suggest. It's terrific. The color selection is great, the fit and finish is great, the styling is great... just a home run all the way around.
EXCEPT - a design like this gets ~5 years of market viability before it looks old. The PT Cruiser is the perfect example of a styling home run that gets tired and old appearing after 5 years. Sales then slump. If there is to be a restyling for this vehicle, it needs to launch no later than ~4 years from now. A mere "REFRESH" WILL NOT be adequate.
Take heed - the Camaro design ALSO only has 5 years of viability before the inevitable slump happens. The restyling has to be timed to happen in the 6th year and the car needs to look radically different after it.
Now, here are the non-content or feature related issues with the car we own. Understand clearly that I am a HYPER-CRITICAL car owner because of my background - many of you would NEVER notice this stuff unless I pointed it out to you item by item. These are true issues that need to be addressed to make a world-class car:
1) NVH: There's an intake whistle on ours. I'll track it down and kill it, but it's there and it bugs me... I shouldn't have to track it down and kill it, it simply shouldn't be there in the first place.
2) NVH: There's a bit of wind noise. Not horrible, but it's there. I'm not good at finding wind noise issues. Could be a door seal compression issue on the driver's side, or the previously mentioned windshield trough.
3) Interior Fit and Finish: Gap (rat-hole - about 1mm) between A pillar trim and headliner at the corner. INEXCUSABLE. Dammit, I've been telling the world about these for YEARS and they STILL GET SCREWED UP. This is Rookie Engineering 101 stuff. F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-N-G.
4) Interior Fit and Finish: Windshield fritter and the edge of the A pillar trim show an inconsistent measurement both when compared side to side (passenger to driver's side) and on the individual sides. The A pillar trim does not follow the same line as the fritter - we're not talking about a small amount here - it looks like a 5-10mm mismatch from one side to the other.
5) Interior Fit and Finish: The door pull plastic panel (which also contains the power outside rearview mirror switches) doesn't sit flush relative to the door panel surface. Another no-brainer fit that got screwed up. Grrrr...
6) Interior Fit and Finish: The rear hatch interior trim is designed to sit flush against the rear hatch steel inner panel. It doesn't, and none of them ever do. The fix? A 3-5mm trough, much like a stamping bead, should be stamped into the rear hatch inner panel and the trim panel designed so that the edge sits in that trough - any gap there is then hidden, along with any flash along the parting line of that interior trim panel. Cost? One more die... MAYBE... you could probably just modify the existing die set to do it.
7) Interior Fit and Finish: The exit hole for the door lock pull needs a ferrule. There door lock pull is nicely chromed, and then exits through this nasty hole in the door trim panel. There's flash on the hole and door lock pull isn't centered. A chrome ferrule fixes both of those problems and looks retro and cool while doing it.
8) Interior/Exterior Fit and Finish: Speaking of fritter, narrow the windshield and backlight fritter up. Fritter is not cool, it's not retro, it looks awful and the vehicle has a small windshield and backlight in the first place - viewable area is at a premium.
9) Interior Fit and Finish: Either pay the money to chrome the door striker or finish it in a dull zinc (which all the nuts used to attach the door hardware are finished in - something like Magni). It looks like an afterthought right now. A "sorta-shiny" part on a car that's got lots of chrome. DO NOT attempt to use the bright zinc that's being used right now - bright zinc, no matter how good, DOES NOT look like chrome. Never has, never will, forever and ever and ever, AMEN.
10) Exterior Fit and Finish: Close out the top of the windshield with a seal or something.
11) Exterior Fit and Finish: Rusty rotors and/or drums are yucky - and the HHR's rotors and drums are already rusty ON THE DEALER'S LOT. This is an endemic GM problem - even Cadillacs have it. There has to be a way to stop this inexpensively... I know this because I went out into our parking lot and looked at a couple of dozen cars. BMW? Rusty. Audi? Rusty. Ford? Rusty.
Chrysler and Jeep? NOT RUSTY after better than 50,000 miles of service in some cases. Now, if those DCX knuckleheads can do it right, GM can. Go to a Chrysler dealer, buy a couple of Pacifica rotors and analyze the coating/plating and where and how it is applied. Then copy it.
Welp, that's it so far. I'll report back if I discover any more or forgot anything.
First Features and Content...
Engine/Transmission:
1) Needs a 5spd automatic, the benefit to fuel economy and performance is undeniable. I know that essentially the HHR is a Cobalt from a powertrain standpoint, and that a 5spd automatic isn't available yet there, but it needs one - 2007 is a year too late, don't wait - get it done.
2) Howza 'bout a 220-260hp blown/turbo HHR SS? They're selling like hotcakes right now, but in a year or so that'll cool down - which is the perfect time to bring out a fire-breathing performance model.
3) E85. Must have E85 compatibility. Hopefully it is coming soon. Hybrids suck, E85 is the future.
Chassis:
1) ABS should be STANDARD across the board. No ifs, ands or buts. I disagree STRONGLY with the marketing decision that said "the others charge for it as an option, so we will too". Make ABS standard and then tell the world through advertising which car companies DON'T have standard ABS - with the not-so-subtle hint that they don't care about safety or their customers, and they're just rying to make a buck. Hammer the point home.
2) Include traction control in the 2LT package. The car is hot from a sales standpoint, option up the 2LT's and increase your margin.
3) For the "SS", if one is ever done, rear discs are a necessity. The rear drums on the current models are perfectly adequate - no sense in making them all disc/disc.
Interior:
1) Color selection... Basically every HHR you see on a dealer lot is built with a Medium Gray interior. The Cashmere and Ebony are rarer than hen's teeth. The Gray itself is... well... gray... and shockingly inoffensive... which is the point I guess.
2) How about some body color accents on the interior? It looks good, but a little more jazzing up wouldn't hurt.
Body:
Erm... I got nothing to suggest. It's terrific. The color selection is great, the fit and finish is great, the styling is great... just a home run all the way around.
EXCEPT - a design like this gets ~5 years of market viability before it looks old. The PT Cruiser is the perfect example of a styling home run that gets tired and old appearing after 5 years. Sales then slump. If there is to be a restyling for this vehicle, it needs to launch no later than ~4 years from now. A mere "REFRESH" WILL NOT be adequate.
Take heed - the Camaro design ALSO only has 5 years of viability before the inevitable slump happens. The restyling has to be timed to happen in the 6th year and the car needs to look radically different after it.
Now, here are the non-content or feature related issues with the car we own. Understand clearly that I am a HYPER-CRITICAL car owner because of my background - many of you would NEVER notice this stuff unless I pointed it out to you item by item. These are true issues that need to be addressed to make a world-class car:
1) NVH: There's an intake whistle on ours. I'll track it down and kill it, but it's there and it bugs me... I shouldn't have to track it down and kill it, it simply shouldn't be there in the first place.
2) NVH: There's a bit of wind noise. Not horrible, but it's there. I'm not good at finding wind noise issues. Could be a door seal compression issue on the driver's side, or the previously mentioned windshield trough.
3) Interior Fit and Finish: Gap (rat-hole - about 1mm) between A pillar trim and headliner at the corner. INEXCUSABLE. Dammit, I've been telling the world about these for YEARS and they STILL GET SCREWED UP. This is Rookie Engineering 101 stuff. F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-N-G.
4) Interior Fit and Finish: Windshield fritter and the edge of the A pillar trim show an inconsistent measurement both when compared side to side (passenger to driver's side) and on the individual sides. The A pillar trim does not follow the same line as the fritter - we're not talking about a small amount here - it looks like a 5-10mm mismatch from one side to the other.
5) Interior Fit and Finish: The door pull plastic panel (which also contains the power outside rearview mirror switches) doesn't sit flush relative to the door panel surface. Another no-brainer fit that got screwed up. Grrrr...
6) Interior Fit and Finish: The rear hatch interior trim is designed to sit flush against the rear hatch steel inner panel. It doesn't, and none of them ever do. The fix? A 3-5mm trough, much like a stamping bead, should be stamped into the rear hatch inner panel and the trim panel designed so that the edge sits in that trough - any gap there is then hidden, along with any flash along the parting line of that interior trim panel. Cost? One more die... MAYBE... you could probably just modify the existing die set to do it.
7) Interior Fit and Finish: The exit hole for the door lock pull needs a ferrule. There door lock pull is nicely chromed, and then exits through this nasty hole in the door trim panel. There's flash on the hole and door lock pull isn't centered. A chrome ferrule fixes both of those problems and looks retro and cool while doing it.
8) Interior/Exterior Fit and Finish: Speaking of fritter, narrow the windshield and backlight fritter up. Fritter is not cool, it's not retro, it looks awful and the vehicle has a small windshield and backlight in the first place - viewable area is at a premium.
9) Interior Fit and Finish: Either pay the money to chrome the door striker or finish it in a dull zinc (which all the nuts used to attach the door hardware are finished in - something like Magni). It looks like an afterthought right now. A "sorta-shiny" part on a car that's got lots of chrome. DO NOT attempt to use the bright zinc that's being used right now - bright zinc, no matter how good, DOES NOT look like chrome. Never has, never will, forever and ever and ever, AMEN.
10) Exterior Fit and Finish: Close out the top of the windshield with a seal or something.
11) Exterior Fit and Finish: Rusty rotors and/or drums are yucky - and the HHR's rotors and drums are already rusty ON THE DEALER'S LOT. This is an endemic GM problem - even Cadillacs have it. There has to be a way to stop this inexpensively... I know this because I went out into our parking lot and looked at a couple of dozen cars. BMW? Rusty. Audi? Rusty. Ford? Rusty.
Chrysler and Jeep? NOT RUSTY after better than 50,000 miles of service in some cases. Now, if those DCX knuckleheads can do it right, GM can. Go to a Chrysler dealer, buy a couple of Pacifica rotors and analyze the coating/plating and where and how it is applied. Then copy it.
Welp, that's it so far. I'll report back if I discover any more or forgot anything.
Last edited by PacerX; Jul 10, 2006 at 10:32 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
What were the panel gaps on the RX300 that made it look so bad? Is the HHR 3.5mm all the way around or just best-case?
Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.
It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.
I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.
Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.
It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.
I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by Threxx
What were the panel gaps on the RX300 that made it look so bad? Is the HHR 3.5mm all the way around or just best-case?
Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.
It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.
I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.
Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.
It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.
I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.
I whipped out a scale (called a "ruler" by most folks) AND MEASURED THEM.
In true trucks, the GMT-900's have a world better exterior fit and finish than the RX300.
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by PacerX
The RX300's I've measured is designed to be 5mm all the way around. But even then, they sucked. Under or overflush and inconsistent.
I whipped out a scale (called a "ruler" by most folks) AND MEASURED THEM.
In true trucks, the GMT-900's have a world better exterior fit and finish than the RX300.
I whipped out a scale (called a "ruler" by most folks) AND MEASURED THEM.
In true trucks, the GMT-900's have a world better exterior fit and finish than the RX300.
Granted the RX300 came out in 1998 and hasn't been made since 2002, its chassis dates back to the 1992 Toyota Camry. The RX330 updated the chassis to an extended version (similar to the Avalon) of the 02+ model year Camry. Now the 07 model year Camry comes out with a significantly revised chassis but we won't see the RX take advantage of the new architecture until about the 09 model year, though it's already using the drastically improved powertrain.
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by Threxx
I didn't ask how you measured them - though I've heard you use that line countless times in response to that question so it's probably just a knee-jerk reactional line for you.
Granted the RX300 came out in 1998 and hasn't been made since 2002, its chassis dates back to the 1992 Toyota Camry. The RX330 updated the chassis to an extended version (similar to the Avalon) of the 02+ model year Camry. Now the 07 model year Camry comes out with a significantly revised chassis but we won't see the RX take advantage of the new architecture until about the 09 model year, though it's already using the drastically improved powertrain.
Granted the RX300 came out in 1998 and hasn't been made since 2002, its chassis dates back to the 1992 Toyota Camry. The RX330 updated the chassis to an extended version (similar to the Avalon) of the 02+ model year Camry. Now the 07 model year Camry comes out with a significantly revised chassis but we won't see the RX take advantage of the new architecture until about the 09 model year, though it's already using the drastically improved powertrain.
My guess? From what I've seen on the HHR, the Lexus has got some steep competition in panel fits... at roughly... oh... half the price?
PS:
My scale > Anybody's eyeball.
Last edited by PacerX; Jul 10, 2006 at 11:04 AM.
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by PacerX
My guess? From what I've seen on the HHR, the Lexus has got some steep competition in panel fits... at roughly... oh... half the price?
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by Threxx
Because panel gaps are the #1 measure of vehicle quality and engineering and thus the #1 measure of value in price?
Data bothers the Import-Lovers for some reason... odd.
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by PacerX
Welp, if the Lexus can't put a $40,000 body together better than Chevrolet can put a (usually) sub-$20,000 body, time to give credit where credit is due...
Maybe I should give the 13k dollar Toyota Yaris credit for having a sturdier arm rest than the 60k dollar Caddy Escalade?
Or shall we just realize that there are countless measures of quality, some not even quantifiable?
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by Threxx
Again, go check out the current models instead of comparing a 5 year newer vehicle, then I'll give credit where credit is due.
Maybe I should give the 13k dollar Toyota Yaris credit for having a sturdier arm rest than the 60k dollar Caddy Escalade?
Or shall we just realize that there are countless measures of quality, some not even quantifiable?
Maybe I should give the 13k dollar Toyota Yaris credit for having a sturdier arm rest than the 60k dollar Caddy Escalade?
Or shall we just realize that there are countless measures of quality, some not even quantifiable?
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by PacerX
"Cry havoc and let slip the Lexus Nut-Hugger Excuse-O-Matic!!!"
The significance of this discovery to me is about as significant as discovering that modern day family sedans are able to hang with LT1 Z28s and even surpass. It's interesting to think about but has very little significance in the current day marketplace.
I can't imagine the reaction I'd get on here if I went and grabbed, say, a 99 Caddy Catera, Deville, Eldorado, Escalade, or Seville and started comparing them to a modern day Toyota of half the price and chose to focus strictly on one particular measure of quality - panel gaps or whatever else I chose to focus on.
I'd get reemed for making such a stretch of a comparison.
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Re: Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)
Originally Posted by Threxx
I'd get reemed for making such a stretch of a comparison.
But, let's say you offered this point and backed it up... well then, a reasonable person would have to say that 3.5mm gaps are darned impressive... especially in light of the 5.0mm gaps that are so common now.
Then, a resonable person would also have to point that not only are these 3.5mm gaps, but this car is a sub-$20,000 Chevrolet based off of an entry-level Chevrolet (Cobalt).
Pretty cool, all the way around. Great attention to detail, particularly on a relatively inexpensive car, and concurrently very impressive when compared to what many of the unwashed out there consider a benchmark (a Lexus) because they're... well... dumb.
BTW, the RX300 was sold new up until 2003:
http://www.lotpro.com/cars/2003/lexus/rx_300