Greetings Members!
OK I am a newbie to this site, so forgive me if I touch on worn topics.
I have an opinion to share about the anticipated rebirth of the Camaro, specifically the Z/28.
The Ford Mustang and the Chevrolet Camaro are like the Red Sox and the Yankees.
There are many other teams that play the same game, but those two have come to REPRESENT the game.
There are several variants of these two pony cars, but the Cobra and Z/28 stand alone at the top of their respective models.
So I am hoping that GM will treat the Z/28 much the same as Ford has treated the Cobra.
It shouldn't be a common car and it should priced for exclusivity.
The Mustang GT and Camaro SS are among the most feared modern muscle on the street today.
But when I see a Cobra, I view it as a seperate and different car from it's stablemates.
So the Z/28 should have features that are simply not available from the factory on any other Camaro.
It's true that Chevy has the Corvette and there is nothing like that in Ford's lineup, but why should we be concerned with that?
Corvettes are nice cars, no question, but very few Corvette owners are driving them hard, and most drivers with the pockets and skills to do so are equally likely to invest in a Porsche as an "affordable exotic".
The pony car stands alone. The Z/28 should have an exclusive to it's badge monster engine (like the recent GM crate engine that is rated at 600+ HP), an independent rear suspension, manual only shifter(without paddles), Near steamroller tires in back, and no real rear seat(put a shelf back there for the groceries or the dog.
I have a very strong liking for the Horton designs that everyone has seen by now. Let me say this: I was 11 years old when the first Camaro was introduced. I saw the first Mustang at the 1964 World's Fair in NYC, and my first ever scale model car was a Mustang fastback.
My cousin bought his Camaro brand new in 1968 and my first ride in it was to go to the New York premier of the Wild Bunch with him. I can't remember which was the more exciting part of the evening, the movie or the car.
My second memorable ride and movie was in the same car as we went to see Bullitt.
I was hooked on the Camaro until the 3rd gen body style came out. Styling after that simply turned my stomach. Mustang styling was good for a few more years, but the Mustang II killed that and sent me lusting after imports for the next 3 decades.
American Muscle remains as some of the purest and most exciting driving experiences ever. Right up there with all of those beautiful exotics that we could never match. Still I hope to see The Camaro return looking much as it did when first introduced.
Maybe it's because I am an "old guy" but I don't care for all the fake hood scoops and pavement scraping ground effects we see tacked on the eastern imports. No doubt that there are some damn fine cars (Skyline, anyone?) that have come from across the Pacific.
I want the Z/28 to be a coveted car by even those who are fortunate enough to own an SS model.
I think it should be rare enough and subtle enough for all but the most knowledgable of us to drive by without a second glance.
The engine and suspension MUST be unique to the Z/28, as must the sound.
This is my opinion at it's most brief. I thank you for this forum. Now, let's get this thing built!

 

Good post but I gotta disagree with part of that last paragraph. I think the Z28, if it is to be the high-end car, should be easily picked out of the crowd. Much like the last Z06 and even moreso the next Z06. That was one of the complaints I had against my 94 Z28... too much like a regular Camaro SC. It should be interesting to see what the General has planned.

 

Thanks for the response. I actually agree with what you said, but I think the differences between all other Camaro variants and the Z/28 should enhance the intent without adding purely visual accents. Form Follows Function. Perhaps adding the concealed headlamps and a strictly business grill, and making them a Z/28 exclusive would make it stand apart form the rest. At the very least it would instantly trigger a "double take" reaction. Certainly it should stand out in a crowd of "regular" Camaro's.
Once again I say, let's "get'r done!"

 

I am torn between which model should be the top model on the next Camaro. I definately think next Z28 should differentiate itself from the base model much more. If the Z28 is the top model I think they should follow a similair formula to the Z06. No convertible, no Auto, lighter etc. I think that fits with the original idea for the Z28 a little bit better than just flipping the Z28 and SS models from their positions in the 4th gen. That may not fit with Chevrolets current SS marketing though.

 

Intresting post. Just to touch on a some items you mentioned:

First, I also feel the Z28 should be in the same catagory as the Cobra, a special track car. But there's a few things that I'm not sure you are aware of (then again, maybe you are ).

1. GM has to piggyback V8 engine development costs on their truck line. There's no way GM (or anyone else for that matter) is going to spring for a unique engine that's going to cost plenty of money to certify. Not just with emissions, but CAFE & corperate durability standards as well. Engines today are tested hard for well over 200,000 mile. REAL hard.

2. Ford's Mustang Cobra is targeted at the Corvette nowadays. Of course a 4 passenger 3600 pound car won't perform as well as a 2 passenger 3100 pound one all else being equal. But Ford's pulling out all the stops to do this. Chevrolet's Camaro simply won't be a part of this. Why? Because top Camaros can't outperform top Corvettes, which sit in the same showroom. Ford creates a Mustang that can run with a Z06. Chevy creates a Camaro that can outdo the Mustang, and therefore matches or outdoes a Corvette Z06. Not gonna happen.

Second point, Camaro's weak point wasn't in it's performance. It takes no effort to pack horsepower into a factory car. A few forged or re-engineered parts and a supercharger on say an LS6, and you'll have Ford GT power levels. Camaro's problem was that it stopped appealing to the people who supply 50-75% of the sales of a car in this class. The ones simply looking for a sporty, easy to live with, low cost, well made & easy & cheap to maintain car. Camaro SSs had no problem selling to the very end. Z28s sales decreased over the years at a rate far less than the base & V6 models did. You could strap a nuclear reactor under the hood, but without a car to bring in the masses, it's a losing proposition.

Finally, it's fantastic to finally have someone else here who appriciates the sleeper look. I also don't like alot of flash or riveted add ons that is the "in" thing (and it isn't limited to eastern imports... see Mustang GT, Neon SRT-4, Cobalt SS, Camaro RS, etc...).

But you have to put yourself in the position of someone who has to convince layers of product specialists, financial people, the people responsible for making sure the vehicles made pass all regulations and liability standards, & board of directors whose main objective is to make the most amount of money with the least amount of investment. This means powertrains developed alongside truck engine development, chassis are shared with higher volume sedans, and the difference in suspension systems is limited to how rigid the springs are, or what type of shocks or rubber bushings are used.

Otherwise, it's all just an exercise in futility.

 

I don't really think that Z/28 need be overly flashy. Sure, it ought to have some specific visual cues...but the thing that should really call it out, would be it's agressive attitude and stance.

 

Good, valid points that I may have neglected as I waxed romantic about a real muscle car in the world of bean counters. With regards to the testing and durability issues, GM already has the afore mentioned crate engine on the market (the after-market anyway) While it would be unique to the Z/28 I hope for, it is not technically speaking, a unique engine. It should have already passed all testing conventions before being offered for sale to anyone. If all else fails, there is always hope for someone to step up to the plate and make enthusiasts pay through the nose for something truly special. But then we are no longer talking Z/28, we are talking Reeves Callaway et al. If Kenny Brown can take a factory produced Cobra and use it as a base for an even faster and better handling Cobra, then there must certainly be someone with a wrench and a PC who can do the same for the Camaro Z/28. I am getting way ahead of reality here, ut the car seems so close I can touch it in my dreams. Back in the heyday of muscle cars, there were dealers who specialized in factory customs. These cars became legends and they are very rare beasts indeed.
Thanks for the good conversation on my first thread! It makes for quite a welcome.

 

HELLO!



I've been preaching sleeperism from my first day here!

See, I'm such a sleeper you haven't noticed Guy.

 

Opps. Sorry there partner.

Let me rephrase it. You could take all the fans of the "sleeper look" on this website, and you probally wouldn't have enough people for a good game of cards.

 

That's because....IMO only.....sleepers are only fun/useful if you are out hunting for street races all the time. Eventually somebody's going to get killed or at a minimum get caught by the cops. So if you are a responsible driver on public roads sleepers just aren't too fun.

I'd rather have a car who's appearance is commensurate with its performance, in otherwords it is fast and looks it so people know what mt car is capable of without having to challenge my manhood on public streets to find out.

At the track it doesn't really matter what a car looks like, its all about the timeslip.

But even more importantly I want something that I like the looks of. You could make a killer sleeper out of a Chevette and a 454 (its been done), but unless somebody challenged you, you'd look like a total chump.

 

Exactly Chris, that was my point about the 4th gen Z28. I love mine but dang! When you pay for the top of the line model you want it to stand out from the V6 coupes a little. I'm not talking about "ricey" stand out either. I think that is why the later SS cars sold so well. That being said, why not give the 5th gen SS an optional LS2 and give the Z28 a slightly detuned LS7. The F-bod will still weigh more than a Z06 so outperforming it won't be an issue. I think they would be smart to make the Z28 the "Cobra" of Camaros. Make it available with only a 6spd, IRS standard, unique wheels, hood and spoiler, plus maybe a color or two not available on other Camaros. Hey, I can dream can't I?

Red are you taking notes?

 

They also don't stand out as much... which means less hastle from cops and thieves.

Most people barely notice the black Z-28 emblems on my dark green '95. I suspect 90% of the other motorists on the road don't even realise it has a V8... until its too late.

FWIW. I have always prefered "sleepers" and I NEVER street race.

 

Chevette with a 454 is a bit overboard.

As jg95z28 points out, sleepers don't get undue unwanted attention. Great insurence when your radar detector goes off, and you have to very rapidly blend into traffic.

It's also a hoot when you are tooling along and someone in a car with wings, ground effects, stripes, and load exhaust zips by you. You in turn blast by blowing his doors off with your low keyed, "boring" looking car (in my case, a Super coupe that's always confused as a gutless 4.6 T-bird) and the guy has a look of pure shock on his face, or you hear him shifting like a maniac trying to catch you.

Priceless!

 

I'm not too much into over the top looks either. But there is a difference between a sleeper look and a comatose look.

 

The Chevette example is extreme but its the clearest way to illustrate the point.

My "garishly" styled WS6 was picked on by an SVT focus the other night on the interstate. As a rule I generally avoid these confrontations but when I heard him downshift and wait for me to catch up I could not resist...so I dropped into 3rd gear and hammered it when I caught him....he didn't stand a chance since I have about 430 crank hp to his 170.

And my car isn't a sleeper by any stretch.

As for avoiding tickets, I find it helps a lot to drive at or just a little over the limit. You're asking for tickets no matter what you drive if you consistently drive higher than the limit all the time. That's no logical justification to saddle all of us with a sleeper-styled coupe.

Looks sell cars.....just look at the import craze. its all about wings and crap. If a sleeper is what you want, perhaps that's what the base coupe with optional v8 is for, but the performance models should look like performance models.