New Gearbox Shifts In Zero Milliseconds!
03-18-2004, 03:18 PM
#61
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 18
Should be equivalent or better than synchromesh. We will offer a 1 year, no argument warranty and work towards extending it.
Only trials will tell for sure but given there's no friction involved in the movement (synchro has friction in the tapered ring) we'd expect excellent service life. The whole driveline life should be helped by ZeroShift. Again, only time will prove/disprove but we've looked at all the things that wear and sought to solve them.
The T5 and T56 trannies are basically pretty robust. We know the T5 starts to lose teeth under duress and the T56 synchros die if you turn up the wick and use quick-shift kits. We'll offer a wide-gear option on the T5 and the T56 weakness is solved because we junk the synchros. Because our aftermarket boxes will be hand-built to blueprint standards, we'll be raising the bar on materials/heat treatments.
We have a hunch that the early ZeroShift gearboxes will be historically significant so they will be as good as we can possibly make them. Painted blue, engineer's signature plaque. We're proud to make them, we want people to be proud to own them.
We're confident.
Only trials will tell for sure but given there's no friction involved in the movement (synchro has friction in the tapered ring) we'd expect excellent service life. The whole driveline life should be helped by ZeroShift. Again, only time will prove/disprove but we've looked at all the things that wear and sought to solve them.
The T5 and T56 trannies are basically pretty robust. We know the T5 starts to lose teeth under duress and the T56 synchros die if you turn up the wick and use quick-shift kits. We'll offer a wide-gear option on the T5 and the T56 weakness is solved because we junk the synchros. Because our aftermarket boxes will be hand-built to blueprint standards, we'll be raising the bar on materials/heat treatments.
We have a hunch that the early ZeroShift gearboxes will be historically significant so they will be as good as we can possibly make them. Painted blue, engineer's signature plaque. We're proud to make them, we want people to be proud to own them.
We're confident.
03-18-2004, 04:17 PM
#63
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 18
I like to hear from the people we'd like to buy our products. 
I'm here primarily to help with the debate (plus, I'm a petrolhead...!)
I respect the rules of forums re: advertising - no URLs in sigs! You'll drop me in the soup man!
This forum came up as a referrer to our site in our stats report so someone must have put up a link earlier on? My URL is in my Profile. It's my username dotcom!
Phil James
I'm here primarily to help with the debate (plus, I'm a petrolhead...!) I respect the rules of forums re: advertising - no URLs in sigs! You'll drop me in the soup man!
This forum came up as a referrer to our site in our stats report so someone must have put up a link earlier on? My URL is in my Profile. It's my username dotcom!
Phil James
03-18-2004, 05:05 PM
#65
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 2,473
Originally posted by ZeroShift
OK, the 'zero' thing. The switching of ratios is instant because the next gear overdrives the current gear at point of shift. Just like a Lenco box in a Top Fuel dragster. A Lenco only works UP the box, it has no engine-braking and can't downshift. ZeroShift can go both ways.
OK, the 'zero' thing. The switching of ratios is instant because the next gear overdrives the current gear at point of shift. Just like a Lenco box in a Top Fuel dragster. A Lenco only works UP the box, it has no engine-braking and can't downshift. ZeroShift can go both ways.
So is skipshifting with zero shiftime possible with ZeroShift?
The way I understand it, the gear your coming from is overdriven by the next gear at EXACTLY the time the next gear is selected, and not before and not after. Is that right?
Kind of like the surface of an object, theres material underneath and nothing above, but the surface is still lies there as the seperator. The seperator in this analogy would be the Zero Shift.
03-18-2004, 06:16 PM
#66
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 18
Meccadeth
You got it!
Yes, you can skip ratios because the overdrive rule applies. And yes, you've figured why the time is Zero, exactly Zero. It can't be anything but Zero.
Some people think our Zero is 'BS', or really means 'nanoseconds' (see beginning of this thread). You can see why with your surface analogy! We're used to the "Pah! It's impossible" reactions so it causes no offence!
There are some links on our site to other Forums, some of which I've participated in. I've also seen some really robust reasoning as to why the passengers would die because of 'infinite' forces in a ZeroShift gearbox.
So Camaro drivers are smarter than the average bear, right?
You got it!
Yes, you can skip ratios because the overdrive rule applies. And yes, you've figured why the time is Zero, exactly Zero. It can't be anything but Zero.
Some people think our Zero is 'BS', or really means 'nanoseconds' (see beginning of this thread). You can see why with your surface analogy! We're used to the "Pah! It's impossible" reactions so it causes no offence!
There are some links on our site to other Forums, some of which I've participated in. I've also seen some really robust reasoning as to why the passengers would die because of 'infinite' forces in a ZeroShift gearbox.
So Camaro drivers are smarter than the average bear, right?
Last edited by ZeroShift; 03-18-2004 at 06:23 PM.
03-18-2004, 06:51 PM
#67
Disciple
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
Certainly a product I'll keep an eye on. If you need some extreme winter testing I'd be happy to have a T56 in my convertible.
http://homepage.mac.com/schmart/PhotoAlbum1.html
http://homepage.mac.com/schmart/PhotoAlbum1.html
Last edited by poSSum; 03-18-2004 at 06:54 PM.
03-18-2004, 08:08 PM
#68
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine
Posts: 1,440
Originally posted by ZeroShift
Some people think our Zero is 'BS', or really means 'nanoseconds' (see beginning of this thread). You can see why with your surface analogy! We're used to the "Pah! It's impossible" reactions so it causes no offence!
Some people think our Zero is 'BS', or really means 'nanoseconds' (see beginning of this thread). You can see why with your surface analogy! We're used to the "Pah! It's impossible" reactions so it causes no offence!
I'm still not entirely convinced about your product. I'm going to wait and read some objective reviews before I make up my mind.
I can see how you can get tired of hearing/reading everyone's skepticism. But you have to admit that this wouldn't be the first time grandiouse claims were made by marketing people. Too often the claims can't be backed up by the product. So when the real deal comes along, its easy to dismiss it based on past experience. Continue to be patient with the public though. If your gadget is as solid as you make it out to be, opinions will change.
03-18-2004, 10:05 PM
#69
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Originally posted by ZeroShift
What does ZeroShift feel like?
You launch in the conventional way by selecting first and feeding in the clutch. Thereafter you just move (no need to yank, you can't go faster than zero!) the gearstick for upshifts and downshifts. Automated launch control may be an option - we can do it but don't expect enthusiasts to want it. A bit of wheelspin is often beneficial for fast launches and your backside is the best sensor of all for that. There's a 'vote for products' bit on our web site, FYI.
What does ZeroShift feel like?
You launch in the conventional way by selecting first and feeding in the clutch. Thereafter you just move (no need to yank, you can't go faster than zero!) the gearstick for upshifts and downshifts. Automated launch control may be an option - we can do it but don't expect enthusiasts to want it. A bit of wheelspin is often beneficial for fast launches and your backside is the best sensor of all for that. There's a 'vote for products' bit on our web site, FYI.
How do you match your engine RPM to your speed as you decelerate and downshift going into a corner?
03-20-2004, 12:51 AM
#70
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Location: Jupiter, FL
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Originally posted by Z284ever
Sounds to me that once you get rolling their is no need to use your clutch pedal.
How do you match your engine RPM to your speed as you decelerate and downshift going into a corner?
Sounds to me that once you get rolling their is no need to use your clutch pedal.
How do you match your engine RPM to your speed as you decelerate and downshift going into a corner?
03-20-2004, 01:03 AM
#71
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Location: Chicagoland IL
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Originally posted by ImportedRoomate
Its probably just as smooth to downshift as it is upshifting
Its probably just as smooth to downshift as it is upshifting
Maybe I'm wrong...but it sounds to me like it would downshift like a really good manumatic.
03-20-2004, 11:05 PM
#72
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 858
Originally posted by ZeroShift
This kind of gearbox will provide one hardware assembly to which a choice of controls can be added. Your options list might be (a) H-gate (b) I-gate sequential (c) paddles (d) auto. The hardware in the transmission tunnel is the same for all.
This kind of gearbox will provide one hardware assembly to which a choice of controls can be added. Your options list might be (a) H-gate (b) I-gate sequential (c) paddles (d) auto. The hardware in the transmission tunnel is the same for all.
03-21-2004, 01:39 PM
#73
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Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 18
Morb|d: The item that started the thread was the first - and only, so far - press release from July 03 (issued 5 months after we first drove ZeroShift). It's listed on a few news feed things on the Net so a few forums have picked it up as a starting point - until that release went out, the industry didn't know we existed.
The two magazine features so far published were objective reviews of the technology. Both Charles Armstrong-Wilson (Racecar Engineering) and Keith Howard (independent, commissioned by Autocar) are highly respected technical writers who were given full disclosure of the technology in order to write as they saw fit. You can get PDF files of both from our web site in the News section.
By the way, ZeroShift is not a 'gadget'! Gadget is a term I'd use for the stuff that gets strapped around manuals to make a 'manumatic' or the stuff that's added to autos to emulate manual behaviour.
ZeroShift is fundamentally, not superficially, different. It's hard to express how elementary ZeroShift is without a picture/diagram, but it's why both the technical journalists wrote what they wrote. What I'm saying - and the tech writers corroborated - is that the basis of gearboxes that date back nearly a hundred years was flawed. That's a big statement.
It's also why we make disclosure, while the patent portfolio is being processed, STRICTLY confidential. The downside is the secrecy feeds skepticism, a sad reflection on where 'marketing' has gotten us in recent years... Anyway, ZeroShift is for real and the press driving the car and, in time, publish-able photos/diagrams is not that far away.
ImportedRoomate: Absolutely right. Upshifts = reduce engine revs to match new gear, downshifts = increase engine revs to match new gear. It's smooth both ways. With the instant shift and a means of discharging the inertia spike, the RPM adjustment is very small. 1000RPM = 13 revs per second - the shift sequence of the secret (sorry!) FlatLiner system sorts this out. Like the between-cogs mechanism, it's elegantly simple. Small, accurate throttle adjustments contribute to ZeroShift's fuel/emissions advantages.
Z284ever: Load/unload the chassis with the gas/brake pedals if you have ZeroShift. I race and use left-foot braking to balance the car. This trick is even easier if, after launch, you don't need to re-visit the clutch.
MissedShift: We don't need the OEMs to survive. They make a lot of cars every year but they've MADE even more. With conversion kits, the T5/T56 will fit Camaros and Vettes (and a whole lot more besides) from the 1960s to date. This is something that's never happened before - the motorist has never had the opportunity to go get the latest transmission tech for himself/herself.
OEMs picking up ZeroShift for standard fit will save you the job of driving to a ZeroShift Speedshop. However, applications to become ZeroShift Speedshops are arriving from main dealers in the UK (I guess the same will happen in the US in due course) which means that, in time, ZeroShift may be in the 'dealer fit' option category on new cars. A kind of semi-OE.
The problem with the big OEMs is that they can't bring themselves to sign Confidentiality Agreements which means the small/medium OEMs have ALREADY stolen a march on them. I won't budge on Confidentiality so big OEMs can't even get to the table to look at the technology let alone order it. Makes me wonder (a) if other tech is being lost because of this and (b) if other tech companies are caving in under the pressure. Not great for the motorist (or the tech companies/inventors) either way.
Anyway, OEM decisions don't matter to you guys. You'll be able to get a ZeroShift gearbox for your Camaro whatever. So, no need to go postal.
The two magazine features so far published were objective reviews of the technology. Both Charles Armstrong-Wilson (Racecar Engineering) and Keith Howard (independent, commissioned by Autocar) are highly respected technical writers who were given full disclosure of the technology in order to write as they saw fit. You can get PDF files of both from our web site in the News section.
By the way, ZeroShift is not a 'gadget'! Gadget is a term I'd use for the stuff that gets strapped around manuals to make a 'manumatic' or the stuff that's added to autos to emulate manual behaviour.
ZeroShift is fundamentally, not superficially, different. It's hard to express how elementary ZeroShift is without a picture/diagram, but it's why both the technical journalists wrote what they wrote. What I'm saying - and the tech writers corroborated - is that the basis of gearboxes that date back nearly a hundred years was flawed. That's a big statement.
It's also why we make disclosure, while the patent portfolio is being processed, STRICTLY confidential. The downside is the secrecy feeds skepticism, a sad reflection on where 'marketing' has gotten us in recent years... Anyway, ZeroShift is for real and the press driving the car and, in time, publish-able photos/diagrams is not that far away.
ImportedRoomate: Absolutely right. Upshifts = reduce engine revs to match new gear, downshifts = increase engine revs to match new gear. It's smooth both ways. With the instant shift and a means of discharging the inertia spike, the RPM adjustment is very small. 1000RPM = 13 revs per second - the shift sequence of the secret (sorry!) FlatLiner system sorts this out. Like the between-cogs mechanism, it's elegantly simple. Small, accurate throttle adjustments contribute to ZeroShift's fuel/emissions advantages.
Z284ever: Load/unload the chassis with the gas/brake pedals if you have ZeroShift. I race and use left-foot braking to balance the car. This trick is even easier if, after launch, you don't need to re-visit the clutch.
MissedShift: We don't need the OEMs to survive. They make a lot of cars every year but they've MADE even more. With conversion kits, the T5/T56 will fit Camaros and Vettes (and a whole lot more besides) from the 1960s to date. This is something that's never happened before - the motorist has never had the opportunity to go get the latest transmission tech for himself/herself.
OEMs picking up ZeroShift for standard fit will save you the job of driving to a ZeroShift Speedshop. However, applications to become ZeroShift Speedshops are arriving from main dealers in the UK (I guess the same will happen in the US in due course) which means that, in time, ZeroShift may be in the 'dealer fit' option category on new cars. A kind of semi-OE.
The problem with the big OEMs is that they can't bring themselves to sign Confidentiality Agreements which means the small/medium OEMs have ALREADY stolen a march on them. I won't budge on Confidentiality so big OEMs can't even get to the table to look at the technology let alone order it. Makes me wonder (a) if other tech is being lost because of this and (b) if other tech companies are caving in under the pressure. Not great for the motorist (or the tech companies/inventors) either way.
Anyway, OEM decisions don't matter to you guys. You'll be able to get a ZeroShift gearbox for your Camaro whatever. So, no need to go postal.
03-21-2004, 04:11 PM
#74
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 858
I wasnt meaning to imply that your company cant survive with the OEs...I was more implying that the OEs need to look at using this technology. For their sake.
Besides, if my conversion of English Pounds to US dollars is right, the price mentioned on your site is probably out of the range of a good deal of Camaro and Firebird owners.
Besides, if my conversion of English Pounds to US dollars is right, the price mentioned on your site is probably out of the range of a good deal of Camaro and Firebird owners.
03-23-2004, 03:27 PM
#75
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Flounderville, MI, USA
Posts: 589
Forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the thread, but I was thinking about this and thought about one potential problem. If this thing shifts from one gear to the next with no gap in between, is there now no 'neurtal' part of the H-gate, its always in a gear? Where I'm going with this is, if you are at a stoplight, do you have to have the clutch pedal press down? Personally I always put the shifter in neutral, parking brake on and take my feet off the pedals.
Just a thought I came up with, you probably do have a way around this, I just don't remember anything said about it.
Just a thought I came up with, you probably do have a way around this, I just don't remember anything said about it.