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New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

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Old Apr 7, 2011 | 04:47 PM
  #1  
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Thumbs up New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21323


Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf_-I...layer_embedded

Engine will likely offer in excess of 100 mpg

Michigan State University (MSU) mechanical engineering associate professor Norbert Mueller [profile] has invented an engine quite unlike those that the world is familiar with today. It has no transmission. It ditches the piston, valves, and crankshaft. It doesn't need to use cooling liquids.

Meet the Wave Disc Generator [video], the engine that could be the death of traditional gas and diesel internal combustion engines (ICEs).

When people claim to have a novel alternative to the ICE, they're typically peddling snake oil investments. But Dr. Mueller has carefully documented his progress and is offering a true ICE replacement. In short, he's turned what's typically a fantasy into reality.

The Wave Disc Generator starts with a rotor that feeds fuel into channels in the disc. As the rotor spins, it naturally mixes the fuel with oxygen in the air. The rotor also blocks the channels as it cycles. This creates a buildup in pressure within the channel chamber, which creates a shock wave capable of igniting the fuel.

These shock waves cause the rotor to turn vigorously, much as a traditional ICE powers the rotations of the transaxle system.

The new design is able to apply the combustion energy of 60 percent of its fuel directly towards propulsion. A normal ICE only applies about 15 percent. Thus the Wave Disc Generator is about 3.5 times as efficient as existing auto engines.


The gains largely owe to inherent mechanical efficiency gains, the reduced friction from fewer components, and channel refinements Dr. Mueller's team has worked out.

The efficiency gains become even more impressive when you consider the engine weight. Typically the engine is one of the heaviest car components. By adopting this far slimmer engine that eliminates significant portions of the drive train, the weight of a hybrid could be reduced several hundred of pounds.

Between the base efficiency gains and the weight reduction, a Wave Disc Generator-powered car would likely get in excess of 100 miles per gallon.


There's one problem -- the current prototypes are far to small to power an automobile -- they fit in the palm of your hand. But with a $2.5M USD from the U.S. Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency•Energy (ARPAe) grant program, Dr. Mueller's team at the MSU Engine Research Laboratory thinks they can come up with a car-sized 25 kilowatt prototype within a year's time.

If they can, they may have found a way for the auto industry to cheaply meet and beat strict upcoming fuel standards. And they may save consumers millions of dollars and strength national security in the process, by reducing dependence on expensive Middle Eastern oil.

MSU isn't the biggest state university around or the hugest name in research (not as well known as say Harvard or MIT). But it has been home to some groundbreaking works. Among those was the first documented observation of evolution in a laboratory setting. As important as that study was to modern genetics and biology, this engine could be an even more important work, if it meets its objectives.






This could possibly be interesting.
Old Apr 7, 2011 | 07:56 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

I remember hearing about this in 2009. But it's 2011 now, and the idea never gained traction or support. I'm assuming that's due to several reasons (that I never saw addressed) in the technical design.

You won't see updates on this stuff really since it was originally talked about.

Daily Tech is posting about something posted 2 years ago that has yet to go anywhere. Way to go guys.

/Thread
Old Apr 7, 2011 | 10:55 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Originally Posted by Geoff Chadwick
I remember hearing about this in 2009. But it's 2011 now, and the idea never gained traction or support. I'm assuming that's due to several reasons (that I never saw addressed) in the technical design.

You won't see updates on this stuff really since it was originally talked about.

Daily Tech is posting about something posted 2 years ago that has yet to go anywhere. Way to go guys.

/Thread
Haha. You are right. I never heard about this before, but the video in the article was posted in October of 2009. Daily Tech is usually pretty good about being up-to-date with their sources .
Old Apr 8, 2011 | 12:53 AM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

I remember in the early 90's reading about a researcher who had built flywheel-based powerplants that were returning crazy numbers and highly efficient.

Then...not another word.

The conspiracy side of me thinks that the military or big oil companies buy them out then bury 'em, but I have no idea what the truth is.
Old Apr 8, 2011 | 07:16 AM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Originally Posted by Shockwave
The conspiracy side of me thinks that the military or big oil companies buy them out then bury 'em, but I have no idea what the truth is.
Even if true, I would think a Japanese, European or another car company from high fuel price country would come out with something like this.

Cheap gasoline in the USA give us a competitive disadvantage when it comes to building high mileage cars.
Old Apr 8, 2011 | 08:25 AM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Originally Posted by Z28x
Even if true, I would think a Japanese, European or another car company from high fuel price country would come out with something like this.

Cheap gasoline in the USA give us a competitive disadvantage when it comes to building high mileage cars.
Exactly, no conspiracy here. When it comes to these whiz-bang devices, they have to perform for 200,000 miles and get good gas mileage while maintaining some decent power. Usually, one of those is lacking.

It seems like we hear about this stuff every year and nothing comes from it. On the conspiracy side, it would do our economy and Government well to have a new tech that we developed to get us off so much oil. They wouldn't kill it. Just think about how many people are in the House...you really think they would all take a gag order....really.
Old Apr 8, 2011 | 04:03 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Reminds me of similar claims that Advanced Engine Technologies made back in the late 1990's about the OX2. (http://www.ox2engine.com) Some pretty prestigious automotive icons like Carrol Shelby and Smokey Yunick et al got "involved" because it was revolutionary. I myself invested, hung onto the stock for years because I "believed" before the stock became completely worthless.

I'll believe it when I see it perform in the real world under real world conditions.
Old Apr 9, 2011 | 05:30 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Autoblog article has better diagram, and link to video

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/04/08...-future-video/

Video says it uses CNG. I was wondering how you'd control this engine. I suppose you could control the flow of fuel and air. The inventor mentions using it to turn a generator in a hybrid vehicle. Makes sense. I also wonder about the NVH. Shock waves are detonation; which I've only ever heard of, never experienced...but I assume it's a pretty high pressure, high noise, high vibration event...
Old Apr 9, 2011 | 06:01 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Originally Posted by Koz
Autoblog article has better diagram, and link to video

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/04/08...-future-video/

Video says it uses CNG. I was wondering how you'd control this engine. I suppose you could control the flow of fuel and air. The inventor mentions using it to turn a generator in a hybrid vehicle. Makes sense. I also wonder about the NVH. Shock waves are detonation; which I've only ever heard of, never experienced...but I assume it's a pretty high pressure, high noise, high vibration event...
I included the video link in my original post, but thanks for the enlarged diagram .
Old Apr 9, 2011 | 08:35 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Big oil and their cronies in Washington squash anything like this that comes along...
Old Apr 9, 2011 | 09:53 PM
  #11  
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Originally Posted by OutsiderIROC-Z
Big oil and their cronies in Washington squash anything like this that comes along...
They be best off buying it and selling it. If they can get the $$$ from the next big thing that's going to replace the ICE (which will be replaced) you can be damn sure they will. They want $$$, I doubt they really care what it comes from.
Old Apr 11, 2011 | 06:50 AM
  #12  
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Maybe they can team up with Zeroshift. They would be UNSTOPPABLE!
Old Apr 11, 2011 | 05:14 PM
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Re: New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs

Wankel but better?
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