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New Details On Cadillac's Upcoming ATS Mid-Size Sedan

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Old 08-18-2009, 12:19 PM
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New Details On Cadillac's Upcoming ATS Mid-Size Sedan

Rear-wheel drive is a defining element of a luxury car for many buyers, endowing a car with superior handling and dynamics despite somewhat more expensive and marginally less efficient packaging. So it's with relief that Cadillac fans heard the news last week that the upcoming 'baby' sedan, dubbed the ATS, is officially confirmed to get rear-wheel drive standard, with optional all-wheel drive available. Today, even more details about the upcoming BMW 3-series fighter has come out.

The latest information on the ATS reveals that the car will possibly reflect some influence from GM's down-under subsidiary, Holden. About five years ago, Holden unveiled a rear-drive, mid-sized concept called the TT36 Torana, which actually previewed the styling of the upcoming VE Commodore (known here in the U.S. as the Pontiac G8).

But according to a GoAuto report, GM's new marketing chief and long-time product guru Bob Lutz has said the Torana is actually the basis for the Alpha platform spoken of so often in the U.S. media.

"Torana is a rear-wheel drive vehicle smaller than the Zeta architecture and smaller than the current CTS Cadillac architecture. It is, or would be, about the size of a BMW 1 Series – maybe just a tiny bit bigger to enable larger wheels,” said Lutz.

“Now that is the architecture that has been bandied about the US press under the name of ‘Alpha Architecture’, and Alpha is still under consideration, but we haven’t kicked off any design work or any engineering work because we have to sort our way through this 35 mpg task."

Holden, therefore, could be involved in any future Alpha platform development. Given the existing production and import/export relationships between Holden and GM's U.S. operations, it's an easy move.

The ATS will be part of General Motors' new small car platform family, so the drivetrain layout is likely to find its way into other small GM-branded vehicles, including Buick's upcoming small crossover. With its small size and likely affordable pricing, the ATS is intended to be Cadillac's highest-volume seller.

The new car's styling will be somewhat reminiscent of the current CTS, though it will also be its own vehicle. Going heads-up against BMW's 3-series and Mercedes C-Class in size and performance while undercutting them in price doesn't mean it will have any room to look less than put-together, however, so expect a package at least as tight as the CTS if Cadillac is going to reach its desired sales figures.

Cadillac is also working on a larger, more 7-series/S-Class-sized XTS flagship sedan, which will get some styling influence from the dramatic, long and sleek Sixteen Concept, though with a somewhat softer, more chrome-laden final result.
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...mid-size-sedan
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:58 PM
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Wasn't the TT36 Torana concept based off a stretched Kappa platform? I thought alpha was more of a Zeta-lite than a Kappa-long platform. BTW, I hope ATS doesn't stick as the name.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:53 PM
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"Torana is a rear-wheel drive vehicle smaller than the Zeta architecture and smaller than the current CTS Cadillac architecture. It is, or would be, about the size of a BMW 1 Series – maybe just a tiny bit bigger to enable larger wheels,” said Lutz.


In other words...

About the size a Camaro SHOULD be.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:51 PM
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Anything 1 Series size and weight RWD from Caddy or Chevy would be a winner in my book.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:11 PM
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I think this is the article they are referencing....

I think they got it backwards...the Alpha could be the basis for a Torana
Since the platform was designed in the US

GENERAL Motors has announced it will build a mid-size rear-drive Cadillac model to compete directly with BMW’s dominant 3 Series for the first time, following a similar proposal hatched by Holden.

Initial details of the as-yet-unnamed premium sports sedan - codenamed ATS and to be positioned under the 5 Series-sized CTS sedan, coupe and wagon range from 2012 - have emerged almost five years after Holden rolled out its stunning rear-drive mid-sized TT36 Torana concept at the 2004 Sydney motor show.

The development of the Alpha platform, which will underpin the new Cadillac, could provide Holden with the base it needs to build its Torana in the next few years if the business case still stacks up in the new economic climate.
The TT36 show car, which was also used to test the public response to the design of the upcoming VE Commodore, was built to demonstrate Holden’s ability to make a world class rear-drive mid-sized sports sedan that could rival Europe’s best athletic prestige models.

It was Holden’s way of putting up its hand to lead the development of a premium compact rear-drive platform that could be used by GM in the US for brands such as Cadillac and also underpin a new-age Torana in Australia.

Nothing materialised in the short term, but rumours bubbled along that a mid-sized platform called Alpha was under development at GM.

The Alpha plan appeared to be on hold when Cadillac instead introduced a sub-CTS mid-sized model for Europe, the BLS, in 2006. It was simply a re-skinned front-drive Saab 9-3, which sold slowly.

GM’s then ‘car czar’ Bob Lutz, who now heads the marketing department at the New GM, talked about the Torana and the Alpha platform with GoAuto in January 2008.

He said the car and the platform had to be considered in light of strict new fuel economy legislation that was looming in the US, demanding a fuel economy average of 35 miles per gallon (6.72L/100km) by 2020. The legislation has since been introduced.

“Torana is a rear-wheel drive vehicle smaller than the Zeta architecture and smaller than the current CTS Cadillac architecture. It is, or would be, about the size of a BMW 1 Series – maybe just a tiny bit bigger to enable larger wheels,” Mr Lutz said.

“Now that is the architecture that has been bandied about the US press under the name of ‘Alpha Architecture’, and Alpha is still under consideration, but we haven’t kicked off any design work or any engineering work because we have to sort our way through this 35mpg (6.72L/100km) task.

“As a lightweight rear-wheel-drive car that is going to add about 1mpg compared to an equivalent lightweight front-wheel drive car – we just have to sort of wait awhile and see where we are,” said Mr Lutz at the time, adding that Holden could be involved in any Alpha development.

“If we proceed with the Alpha Architecture, I think it is safe to say that Holden would be vitally interested in participating in that project,” he said.

While Holden was appointed GM’s global ‘home room’ for rear-wheel drive before the company was restructured earlier this year, the Alpha platform development is being led by North America.

Mr Lutz recently made a blog posting ruling out the return of the Pontiac G8 as a Chevrolet in which he stated rear-drive cars were still part of the company’s future plan, in which he referred to the Holden.

“And we have a tremendous RWD team in Australia that gave us the beloved G8, a team that we will tap into at some point again in the future for its expertise and sheet metal. Just not right now,” he said.

GoAuto understands Holden is still working on other rear-wheel-drive projects for GM, but will have no more than an assistance role for the new car.

Holden would not discuss its role in relation to the new Cadillac or whether it would re-consider the plan to build a Torana alongside the Cruze and the Commodore in Australia.

The company was incredibly keen to build the Torana in 2004, as design chief Tony Stolfo made clear when asked about the concept car: “It's a first step towards monitoring public reaction to a type of rear-wheel drive vehicle that doesn't exist in today's General Motors portfolio.

“It could be designed and produced off a number of GM platforms, taking advantage of the virtual maths-based processes and component sharing which enabled us to build this working concept in a very short space of time.”

Whether Holden is still in a position to develop and build a premium rear-drive after its near-death experience as GM went through bankruptcy is unclear.

Australia’s VE Commodore platform, codenamed Zeta, was to become a global platform underpinning a range of premium large cars but the idea was scrapped last year due to the fuel economy concerns.

The only vehicle other than the Commodore, Statesman and Pontiac G8 to use the Zeta platform is the Holden-engineered Chevrolet Camaro, which has just been introduced in the US to positive reviews.

While there is limited information available regarding the new Cadillac ATS, GM has confirmed that it will also be made available with an all-wheel drive option.

The company said the new vehicle promised driving dynamics to match the best small prestige models from Europe.

“With hi-tech engines, rear-wheel drive and optional all-wheel drive, the new sedan will take on the best in the segment,” GM said in a statement.

New GM CEO Fritz Henderson said the new car needed to be as successful as the CTS, which has brought younger customers to the Cadillac brand.

“We are determined to repeat what CTS has already achieved in design, quality, driving dynamics, performance and fuel economy to grow our presence in this high-volume and highly competitive segment,” Mr Henderson said.

Openly discussing the new small Cadillac three years before its introduction is part of a plan by GM to prove it will continue to invest in new-car development despite the fact it is now majority owned by the US government.

He said the company could do so because it saved money by pulling the pin on poorly performing brands.

“As we went through bankruptcy, we did pull back on our capital spending,” said Mr Henderson. “We eliminated our spending – the first thing we did early on is eliminated our spending on Hummer ... which was a huge amount of capital, actually,” he said.

“We eliminated our spending on Pontiac. We eliminated our spending on Saturn. I mean, we eliminated spending on the brands – and Saab ... we ultimately made the decision they’re not core brands. So a relatively meaningful amount of capital and spending came out of the budget, just from the decisions regarding brands, number one.”

Mr Henderson said GM has also decided to wind back its spending on pick-up trucks and large SUVs to redirect much of it into more fuel-efficient passenger models.

“We have been allocating engineering to those programs, but the power of our capital in engineering is largely in cars and crossovers.”

As part of last week’s product preview, GM also showed two concept cars based on the ‘less is more’ concept, with a Chevrolet car and a GMC ute presented under the ‘Bare Necessities’ banner. Both vehicles have the most efficient designs possible with no fancy trimmings. The idea is to keep costs and weight, and therefore fuel consumption, to minimum.

The GMC ute features a reversible bulkhead that enables it to be used as a two-seater with a full tray or a four-seater with a shorter tray. GM did not specify the engine of the concept ute, but said it would achieve fuel consumption of 5.8L/100km and be able to haul a 680kg load.

Nor did it mention what lies beneath the bonnet of the Chevrolet hatchback, saying only that it was designed to be the “car with the lowest cost per mile of any four-seater on the road”.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257616001A915B
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 95redLT1
I think this is the article they are referencing....

I think they got it backwards...the Alpha could be the basis for a Torana
Since the platform was designed in the US



http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257616001A915B
Nope, they didn't get it backwards.

Holden still does the leading engineering work for GM's RWD car platforms outside of Corvette.

I got into it here with someone else who swore it was a 100% North American effort (among other things). So I stopped posting info about it.
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by guionM
Nope, they didn't get it backwards.

Holden still does the leading engineering work for GM's RWD car platforms outside of Corvette.

I got into it here with someone else who swore it was a 100% North American effort (among other things). So I stopped posting info about it.
I'm not doubting you...but I'm confused.

The article states..
While Holden was appointed GM’s global ‘home room’ for rear-wheel drive before the company was restructured earlier this year, the Alpha platform development is being led by North America.
The first one I posted from Motor Authority says...
But according to a GoAuto report, GM's new marketing chief and long-time product guru Bob Lutz has said the Torana is actually the basis for the Alpha platform spoken of so often in the U.S. media.
Seems to me the Caddy is the "basis" and because of the Caddy the Torana could be built since it would have a platform. Am I wrong here?
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 95redLT1
I'm not doubting you...but I'm confused.

The article states..


The first one I posted from Motor Authority says...


Seems to me the Caddy is the "basis" and because of the Caddy the Torana could be built since it would have a platform. Am I wrong here?
The car's almost certainly going to be built here (both for GM-NA as well as Holden)....
...That means the OEM network has to be based here....
...Which means most of the development that these OEM suppliers will do is going to be here....
...Which means the car will need to be developed here (OEMs work side by side with a car company in developing a new car).

The structural part of the Alpha (body, suspension, etc) will be done by Holden. The work will then be taken up by GM-NA.


Holden did the entire Camaro.

Much of the Camaro's unseen systems and hardware come from Holden. Because Camaro is made in fairly small numbers, the parts can come right from Holden's own suppliers that do the VE and WM. If GM did the Impala, DTS, and Roadmaster off of the Zeta, the volume would require setting up a OEM network here since Holden's wouldn't be able to meet the demand. Regardless as to what GM says publically, GM didn't have the resources to set up Zeta here... and why Zeta sedans were killed, yet making Camaros isn't an issue.

So while Holden did all of the Camaro from start to finish, with "Alpha" they will be doing the engineering work, and then handing it off to North America to bring it to reality.

Last edited by guionM; 08-19-2009 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:27 AM
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by guionM
The structural part of the Alpha (body, suspension, etc) will be done by Holden. The work will then be taken up by GM-NA.


.
Being a global company, I'm sure engineering work is being done everywhere, including Holden.

But I consider this statement, way over reaching...
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PacerX

In other words...

About the size a Camaro SHOULD be.
Sometimes I miss Pacer....
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:00 PM
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It is, or would be, about the size of a BMW 1 Series – maybe just a tiny bit bigger to enable larger wheels,” said Lutz.
I love that statement ....

What I don't like is that I haven't seen a mention of convertible or cabrio in any of the Alpha talk.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by poSSum
I love that statement ....

What I don't like is that I haven't seen a mention of convertible or cabrio in any of the Alpha talk.
Don't worry Art, a convertible is planned.
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