Since this gets discussed in every other thread I thought maybe we needed a dedicated pricing thread.

Lets come at this whole content issue from the other direction. Disregard what you want in the car for a minute. Just assume it is competitively equipped for its class. I will address some option packages but I think the key point is the pricing has to drive the content, not the other way around.

Once we agree on target price ranges then its a choice of what do you want that we can get and keep the car profitable in the price range we know it will need to compete in. (aka If they can fit IRS in there at these prices then great, if not, tough).

Camaro V6 (aks Camaro Sport?)
Base of $20,995 ($1200 over Mustang)

IMO you charge more vs. Mustang by giving it a high-feature V6 of approx 230hp...this makes the Camaro, assuming its no larger physically than the Mustang, a possible competitor for import coupe buyers and it also gives the base car a little touch of refinement not typical to GM's base V6 cars. IMO it would pull the V6 car up a 1/2 notch on the "class" meter.

This also makes it a great girl car or sporty car for those not looking for a powerhouse but a reasonably equipped and sharp daily driver. 16" wheels standard.

V6 should max out no higher than $26,995 (vs. Mustang V6 premium at $25,300) and should be available well-equipped for around $23,995. Onstar and GPS, XM, etc. should be available in the V6 so those that want a loaded V6 tourer can get it. It need not be a stripper model because who really wants a stripper other than the Z06-types (which I'll get to in a minute)?

V6 convertible would be $23,995-29,995 and would be THE rental convertible in America.

SS: This would be the standard performance model for the masses, but would not be a "basic" car by any means. Give it an LS4 330hp 5.3L. It needs styling easily differentiated from the V6 but not gaudy. Unique wheels and a hood scoop/wing will probably suffice.

SS needs to start at $26,995 and option out loaded with all the bells and whistles (same stuff as the V6) at $32,995.

We can discuss an optional LS2 but I'd really like to see GM save a unique motor for the top of the line car so they don't have to resort to gimmicks like "ram air" to advertise more HP and charge a premium for it.

SS vert would be $29,995-35,995.

Z28 would be the Z06 equivalent. It would start at $31,995 and option out at $34,995. This keeps it safely away from Base Corvette territory and also keeps it competitive against the pricer but more powerful Shelby Mustang.

Z28 would NOT be available as a 'vert, but T tops would be optional. LS2 as standard equipment, cloth seats ONLY, unique 18" wheels, larger brakes + brake ducts, beefier suspension, and some race parts like Z06 though I don't expect all the same stuff due to pricing considerations (the rear diff cooler would be neat but we don't want to pay for the dry sump oiling system). Fewer options (incl PW/PL but no power seats or mirrors, for example) would be available as this is a street legal racer and not a boulevard cruiser. Get the SS if you want the "GT" experience.

Now, if you can stuff all the high end content you want into these cars at these prices and still make a profit, I'm all for it.

 

Everything sounds good to me....

Without turning this into a "Who's the top dog Camaro, SS or Z28" debate, given Chevy's current commitment to its SS line, what are the odds that we would see the SS as a midlevel?

I do much like the idea of offering a ***** to the wall Camaro as a separate model as opposed to a lesser known option, a la 1LE.

 

At first read I'd agree with your pricing scheme.

There's been too many posts lately, but has it been suggested that maybe Z28 get dropped as a model and rather go back to being a (high profile) option package to both base cars and SS cars?

With it you'd get the high hp engine (I'm hoping to avoid the SS/Z28 top car argument), race suspension, race seats (maybe, might depend on which model you add it to), and all the other go fast things. Maybe a $3000-$4000 option group? This way the pure enthusiasts could get their 'cheap' hi-po car while the 'curb racers' can talk up the go fast hardware they never use.

Just a thought.....

And, the Z28 would come with a badge or some other identification, like the Boss and R/T cars.

 

Z28 too expensive, won't sell... That's GTO territory with the same engine. And the GTO will ride better, nicer interior, more refined - people will opt out of the Z28 at that price and buy a GTO (or vette).

 

Pretty good targets, all in all. But they SHOULD have a Z28 'vert.

GM lost the sale of a Z06 to me because it's not available in a 'vert. GT500 will be available in 'vert. Does GM want to lose another sale?

 

If there's demand enough for the Z28 vert...fine. I just don't see much point in it as competition-based cars should have roofs.

Good point about the GTO pricing. But we'd have to expect the next GTO to be heavier and larger, so even with the same engine the performance isn't going to be equal. Also GTO would not have some of this premium racing equipment. GTO should be a slightly bigger and slightly nicer equivalent to the SS, for slightly more money.

The SS vs. Z28 thing IMO:

GM wants an SS for every Chevy but Corvette.

But what is the Chevy definition of SS? Is it brain-searing performance? Certainly not. Althought all the current SS cars are the top performing trims of their respective models, none are blow you away fast. What they are is a well optioned, grand touring package. Premium power and amenities to match.

My SS above would fit that mold exactly. Same thing as all the other SS's.

Camaro would just have another model, Z28, that would fit the Z06 mold...Lighter, simpler, faster. Certainly not a GT.

This puts the two names back with their proper meanings. Would it not be odd to have a Z28 that is like the SS's of all the other models and an SS that is more like a Z06?

 

I don't see why the Z28 would have to be more expensive than the SS. They could sell for the same price, except one has the money put in to niceties and the other into performance with minimal amenities.

 

If there is no Z28 vert I will never own a 5th gen period. There are a lot of people who like to go fast and enjoy warm weather cruising also. I will NEVER own a sports car with a fixed roof, I don't spend 100% of my time at time trials, its all about having fun.

 

Would your stance be the same if the Z28 was midlevel and available in convertible, but the SS was the hardcore racecar with no vert option?

 

You guys are all insane.

Actually I agree with everything except for the Z28. If its going to be Camaro's version of the Z06, then its going to be somewhere in the $40-44K range. $32-33K just doesn't make sense. You'd be better off optioning up an SS in that case.

Secondly, if a Z28 is going to be done, it needs to be done right. That means just like the Z06 which means, no T-tops and no convertible. It needs big brakes, lots of carbon-fiber and it needs the LS7. Some people will argue that it will never happen because that would mean a top Camaro besting the base Vette for about $10K less. However the Corvette and Camaro serve different purposes and different tastes. THIS Z28 would basically be a street legal racer just like the Z06. (Not too many Vette buyers who are looking for a cruiser sports car would buy it, nor consider it a threat.) However I also don't think it should be completely no frills. It needs to have a decent stereo system, A/C and it needs to come with top end racing seats. Cloth? You have got to be frickin' kidding me. Make mine leather but if that's too "pricey" for some I guess it could base with highend vinyl with a leather option. Still this car shouldn't be some twenty-something's toy and shouldn't be priced as such either. This special Camaro would be for the guy with money to spend and a potential to actually take it to the track.

My version of the Z28, may not be your idea of the top dawg Camaro, but it certainly is mine, and "if" it ever became available, I'd drop whatever I'm doing and head for my Chevy dealer with checkbook in hand.

 

The SS needs a vert option as well. If people want a car to race, they will order hard tops, end of story. For the other 99% of the world who just wants a fast car and the ability to put the top down and cruise all summer it would just not be fair and also downright stupid to not offer an ttop/convertible option. Newsflash....not EVERYBODY races their SS/Z28s, as a matter of fact, I'd say its more then the majority that dont.

 

You call everybody insane and then throw this out....

A 44k Camaro? They couldn't get them off the lots at 30k

people with "money" don't buy Camaro's they buy Vettes, or Vipers, or NSXs or Porshes, etc etc.

 

True, however you need to forget about the idea of the 4th gen SS and Z28.

What Chris, I and others are describing is a Z28 like the Z06 and like the original Z28... a no-nonsense, limited production street legal race car. The majority of Camaro performance enthusiasts will buy the Camaro SS. The Z28 will be purchased by a limited few for actually racing or to squirrel away in a collection.

 

The original Camaro Z28 wasn't limited production. They made more then 20,000 of them. And it wasn't really a street legal race car either, there were plenty of faster cars out there. What you describe as a "z28" has less then a 0% chance of being made, its just not going to happen. What you describe is more something that a company like SLP or Berger or any of the other tuners could offer possibly through a dealer network, but its NEVER going to be produced by Chevy.

 

Really? Then explain the guys who drop $200k on Yenko and COPO Camaros?