Here's my token NAIAS report for whatever it's worth...well I know you've been waiting Darth. Give me some time and I hope guys like guionM can answer my GTO question at the end.

Let's start with Ford first.

*Mustang concept looked even more retro than it does in pictures. To me, the car is a spitting image of Eleanor from Gone in 60 Seconds. The convertable was not there so I can't comment on it. I can say after seeing those funky glowing taillights that there can't be any way they make production.

*427 is actually quite slick, it is exactly how you would expect a Ford sedan to look. The front end still appears to, ahem, "borrow" some cues from CTS or even the Mercury Mountaineer.

*New Lightning didn't look too bad, but something was kind of odd to me about the proportions of the bed. The beltline looked very high. Not sure if it was because of my vantage point or what. My friend said it was because they chopped some height off the roof, but if that's the case they really needed to lower the beltline. Maybe others who have seen it can comment. It is certainly more blocky and edgy than the current model.

Now for Dodge. Wow, what to say? I think we spent more time in the Subaru section looking at freakin' WRX's than at Dodge. They had nothing of great interest to me. Their biggest concept was the Tomahawk motorcycle, a rediculous-looking piece of machinery that drew oohs and ahhs from some of the little kids standing in front of it. If that thing can possibly hit 300 MPH like the guy on the stand claimed then I'm Lee Iococca. Sorry Dodge, go pull someone else's chain.

GM

*The SS was nice, the fenders are NOT as bold as they appear in pictures, they are actually quite tasteful. The front end just doesn't sit right with me though. First thing to go would be the maligned silver bar. The front actually comes to a point which IMO doesn't look right with the smooth rounded fenders. I really liked the side profile and rear.

*G6 will make a very nice next gen Grand Am. You can see a natural progression there. It's sleek and has nice lines. For God's sake GM please offer the supercharged V6 with the same amount of power as in the showcar, just for once?

*Sixteen was unreal. Big crowd around it. I'm undecided about whether I liked the Cien of a year or two ago or Sixteen more. The thing is HUGE and has that "I'm rich and snooty" presence. Hope I can buy one someday. BUILD IT! As a side note, they had the V16 on an engine stand and yikes...never saw headers quite like that!

*Finally, GTO. Here's the thing. It's nice and all, bland but nice. It's a start and I'm sure it's one great car. Unfortunately no one could get close enough to check out the car's strength, the interior. I got the general sense from those looking at it that they were all disappointed. Looking rather emotionless at the car, I started to think about this.

Most people, former GTO owners or otherwise, are demanding more agressive looks out of a new GTO. However we all know that Lutz is looking for cleaner, smoother, more elegant styling for Pontiac apparently to compete with BMW. There's a serious clash of philosophy already brewing here and I'm worried it could get ugly. My question is, does a more agressively styled GTO even "fit in" with Lutz' vision of what Pontiac should be? If not, there is no excuse for the GTO nameplate being back. Period. I had no idea I would be thinking this way just a few hours ago but now that I have seen for myself the relative disappointment in the car combined with Pontiac's new styling goals it has me singing a somewhat different tune. I would love your opinions.

 

I think the best thing I can do regarding the GTO is to just disregard the name altogether. It's a great car I'm sure but the General screwed up big time bringing back the musclecar designator. If I get one, it will have all GTO badging removed so that BMW driver may ask "WTF was that car that just handed my **** to me?"

 

I forgot one thing about Dodge, the SRT-8. It's big, I mean BIG, and uhh it's a wagon. Its redeeming feature is the Hemi. Other than that, no big news from the Dodge boys.

 

V-16 Engine

 

Even if they do build it I doubt you would ever see one on a road, most would probably end up in a collection.

I'd guess a sub $200K pricetag.

Wish I could get my hands on that engine though

V16

 

Every single report of the GTO is that the car is unspectacular and plain, just the same as myself and others expressed way before the car was ever put on display. But when we were doing it, we got stupid remarks directed to us and excuses how we weren't gonna be right. Well, guess what?!

I think we all can agree GM needs to get in gear and start doing things right. When will B.L.'s work and control over the company go into real effect since he is still dealing with things from before he got the job??

 

Add me and all 6 of my friends to the "Wow, the GTO is duller than I thought" list.

Part of the reason for this is that the general public, unlike us board members, only know the car as the new "GTO". They don't know about the high-quality interior. They don't know it's an imported sports car from Australia. Heck, many of them probably don't even know about the LS1 engine.

Everyone is thinking "GTO", "Muscle Car", "Agressive Styling", and then they see this larger cavalier shaped car with a grand prix front end and they are naturally dissapointed.

I actually think the car would have gotten better reactions if it wasn't named the GTO.

 

I too noticed a lot of people looking blankly at the GTO.
I think its a bit boring looking myself. And Im not sure its exciting enough visually to be a GTO, even though Im sure its perfect mechanically.

 

Great report Z28Wlison!!

As expected, I am right in line with just about all my thoughts...

 

It probably would have helped if people could have sat in the GTO. putting 18" rims on was a good move. There sould be tons of aftermarket parts from HSV by the time the car is out. I almost bet that Pontiac will offer an optional Ram Air style hood like they do on the Grand Am.

 

Nice report Mark. You know you loved the 03 cobra, mention it damnit.

 

I really think GM erred in keeping the GTO interior away from public scrutiny. Beyond the cars performance & handling, that is the highpoint.

I like muscular low keyed confortable cars that have fantastic performance and handling, but doesn't attract alot of unwanted attention, so I'll conceed that my tastes run a bit conservative in styling. That said, I'll also conceed that the GTO will seem dull to alot of people.

To answer your question Z28Wilson, this is most certainly the direction Bob Lutz is taking Pontiac. With that as a backdrop, the GTO fits right in to where it historically was. A muscular car that looked like every other Pontiac of that year.

I'm starting to believe that no nameplate should come back, because it will always have distractors that IMO rewrite history, regardless as to the facts to a particular car's history. When someone actually thinks a new 'Nova' named car 'needs to be done right', we have a very, very serious problem with reality here.

I also am begining to wonder if it was actually a good idea to send Pontiac down the road to BMW performance with Jaguar-ish styling. Jags plain bodies look good because there is tasteful chrome hung on then. Pontiac's seem to be going down the road to blandness. GTO actually is the direction of future Pontiac styling. The heavily cladded & ribbed Grand Am was normally in 1st or 2nd in total car sales at GM. I can't sneeze outside without dampening a Grand Am. Those things are everywhere! Safe to say, the excess body junk wasn't all bad.

BTW, Bob Lutz today announced the Cadillac 16 won't be produced, but that it's design would show up on an upcomming large Cadillac.

 

That is disappointing. From what I've read Bob Lutz really wanted this car to become reality. Good ol' GM beancounters, my gut is they killed Cien and now Sixteen. Do they not understand the concept of image boosting vehicles? Is Ford projected to make money on the GT(40)? I doubt it.

 

Jaguar-ish styling? Your comparing the new GTO to Jaguar styling? The Jag's bodies are not THAT plain. They have creases and curves in the hood. The side profile's have those "sexy" jaguar curves. The headlamps and grills are not dull and plain.

Here is an example of the curves on a Jaguar sport coupe (ie not a Jaguar sedan):
http://www.jag-lovers.org/include/iv...ter_uk_1_s.jpg

See how sleek the rear end view is? Also, the front view is not what I would consider plain. It's not just a matter of slapping some tasteful chrome on the car to make it exciting. The actual body style and shape of the car very big factors.

Now,for example, take a look at a rear end shot of the GTO:
http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/previewpage?010748

Do you see how stubby the GTO's rear end looks compared to the Jag? The GTO also lacks the curves of the Jag. Slapping some chrome on the GTO is NOT going to make it look as sleek or exciting as the Jag.

Take a look at some of the front end shots of the GTO. Are they as exciting as the Jag?
http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/*query?...rce=all&page=3

 

Interesting how they 'cleaned up' the current Grand Am model by stripping the ribbing cladding off.... leaving behind the ALERO doors...

So, let me get this right... in order to make Pontiac "better", they are making them look more like Olds... and Olds is be shelved permanently because of low sales.