Ford won the pony car wars, and right now is the ONLY RWD performance game in town


Ford won the pony car battle by default not the war. The war continues its just in a pause for the time being.



Just chiming in.

Mustang does sell alot of cars off their image and allure of the nameplate's history.
Believe me I live in 5.0 land. When I was in high school '89-'91 that is the car (5.0) everyone talked about and lots of people thought it was the fastest car made in America. There were alot of misconceptions about the Mustangs. I had to stand up and defend Corvettes and certain optioned Camaro IROC-Zs which were cleary faster than Mustang 5.0s but I was in a minority, a Chevy guy.
When the Corvette ZR-1 came out nobody in high school knew that it was by far the fastest car in America. So there was alot of misconceptions about the Mustangs performance because of the nameplates allure to so many people that didn't know the facts about the car, people heard fast and faster and then fastest. but that was high school.
Now Mustang guys don't get me wrong the Mustang was very fast back then (I would have loved to have owned a notch back 5.0 LX back then) but it wasn't the fastest American made car.

Alot of that is still true today, even though the F-Body was superior in performance for the last 10 years.
So I believe the sells of the Mustang have benifited alot from the legend of the nameplate.

If this post appears to be biased it is because I am for the most part a Chevy guy. I tried to be fair, but I am on the other side of the fence from the Mustang guys

 

Are you basing this off of hp numbers?

 

No, I haven't done a single thing to modify my LS-1. Back in the LT-1 era I was really big proponent of aftermarket 383 packages, like the Callaway Supernatural. The LS-1 is a far more satisfying engine at high rpms, so I never saw the need. Moreover, because of the alloy block, LS-1 383s tend to be long stroke motors. I'm a fan of oversquare engines, and have a bias against high piston velocities.

Your examples of "ultimate" Mustang conversions beg the question of why you wouldn't you just buy a Corvette? A car like a Roush costs serious lolly, and the waranty is only good at Roush franchisees. (If you were talking about about a converter as credible as Alpina, it would be different. Alpinas are waranteed directly through BMW, and BMW actually uses Alpina engine designs in factory cars, like the last generation U.S. market M3, Z8 auto, X5 4.6i, etc.) Until there is a factory package as complete as the FR500 concept, the Mustang will remain a performance compromise.

 

You've said before that you had a lemon of a LT-1 Camaro. I think you're the one that's biased toward the Mustang. The sad fact of new car ownership is that you'll occasionally run onto a "Monday car" from any make. According to the latest issue of Consumer Reports, the Mustang scores lower on reliability than any current Hyundai model. It looks as if a Ford store is about the last place you'd want to go for a "quality car."

As far as the Bullitt, I still think Ford made a joke out of paying homage to the Steve McQueen movie of the same name. Watch the film, and read the history. That fabled green Mustang had a NASCAR motor. Ford figures that an extra 10hp - woops, only 5hp - was enough for current buyers. It's even sadder that it took so many aftermarket-typical mods to wring out that measley 5 bhp. At least they were on authentic when it came to taking away equipment.

Even with Camaro gone, I still can't accept Mustang just because its the cheapest "performance" ride. Affordibility just isn't enough when it comes to the 'Stang. With the compromises that Ford has traditionally made with this car, there are plenty of used cars that are superior to the new Mustang alternative.

 

nascar motor???....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!sorry,buddy,maybe you should read the history.the '68 GT featured in bullitt just had your basic 390 in it,the motor was tweaked just alittle so the stang could keep up with that bad-*** charger,it also had a slightly modified suspension to withstand all the jumps and other abuse.nascar motor...bwaHAHA..maybe nascar sound effects...HAHAHAHAHA....i bet ole frank was wishing he had a 427 or 429 in his stang..it would been a short chase.greatest chase of all time though.

 

Uh-oh... we NOW have a problem...
I enjoy your input, and we see the same colors from time to time, but you screwed the pooch this time dude.
Here red, ________/ , there's a crowbar to help get your foot out.

From THIS article, quote "Just like the most famous Mustang Fastback in the world, Dave Kunz's "Bullitt" replica came from the factory with Ford's 390-cubic-inch big block engine, four-speed transmission and, most importantly, the "Highland Green" exterior color. "

And quote 'For the filming of "Bullitt," two 1968 Mustang Fastbacks were used from the Warner Brothers fleet for actor Steve McQueen's movie character. Once the Mustangs were selected, veteran race driver and builder Max Balchowski was enlisted to modify the cars for the rigors of the high-speed pursuit scenes. Balchowski added stronger springs and Koni shocks, and he fabricated braces for the inner fenders. He also did some minor tuning to the 390-cubic-inch engine for a little more top-end power. "

I'll stop there. I can forward to you some quotes and actual pics of the car. 1 of the original 2 used in the movie still exists today with @86k miles on it.

I can respect the fact that you don't like the car, if you would just state so as your opinion, but your attempts to bring slander to the car is LAME, and even a bit childish. The fact is, the Bullitt was a marketing success, and the car itself has "delivered the goods", even better than was expected. It has done so well in fact, it has created it's own cult following and aftermarket, with clubs like THIS ONE and parts lines like this and this S/C funhouse. (Given the suspension improvements already in place on the Bullitt, I'd think a blower putting 390hp to those meaty rubbers would HAVE to be a tough act to follow myself.)

And REMEMBER, this is a ONE-YEAR-ONLY run, of a particular VERSION, of a particular MODEL - It's not like we're talking ALL Mustangs here, just one version of one model made for one year. Just which beloved Bimmer would you like to relate to this kind of popularity? (BTW, here is probably the BEST BULLITT LINK on the web, and was done by the Mustang Club based in GERMANY! - near and dear to AMG, Benz, and the Bimmer... ENJOY!!! )

 

30thZ286speed, believe it or not, unless you compare the IROC Z with the 350/automatic (the ONLY way you could get the 5.7 engine) with Mustang's 5.0/automatic, the Mustang was in fact quicker in pretty much every catagory because all other Irocs had the 305. Though they put out more horsepower than the Mustang, that was reflected in the Camaro's higher top speed compared to the Mustang's (generally 150 vs 140), but the Mustang's feather weight made it generally quicker in acceleration runs.

As for Redzed's remark on the "nascar" Bullitt, I think that's been hit on enough.

 

Actually, I gotta disagree there Derek. While I adamantly loved that chase scene, for years it was my favorite too.

BUT - after last years release of the ORIGINAL Gone in 60 Seconds... I am totally WON OVER by that flick!

48 minutes of non-stop car chase scene with NO CINEMATOGRAPHY or enhancements. Wrecks are wrecks. Jumps are jumps. 132 cars destroyed in that movie. And the ORIGINAL ELEANOR (not a '67 GT500 either) still doing powerslides and donuts TODAY after being beat all to H**L.

It ROCKS.

Sorry this is off-topic - just wanted to share a little joy.

 

quote:
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Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Mustang is not a bad car but the V6 Mustang does not offer anything that a car like, say, Monte Carlo doesn't.
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True, and I could be wrong when I say this, just a gut feeling but I don't think little Jenny cares whether her car is FWD or RWD. I don't see a majority of V6 Mustang buyers "having" to have a 5 speed or lusting after RWD in their "sporty" mid-size coupe.

 

You know what,I have said that for years.BUT chevy guys cannot hear it.And thanks for posting that.Maybe they will listen to someone respected like yourself....

 

You've said before that you had a lemon of a LT-1 Camaro. I think you're the one that's biased toward the Mustang. The sad fact of new car ownership is that you'll occasionally run onto a "Monday car" from any make. According to the latest issue of Consumer Reports, the Mustang scores lower on reliability than any current Hyundai model. It looks as if a Ford store is about the last place you'd want to go for a "quality car."

Biased towards Mustangs? No. Not really. I just happen to own one and it happens to be a fantastic car - IMHO the best Mustang made since 1970. But I'd be the first in line for a 5th gen. Camaro, so I don't think I'm biased.

Of course, I'm a car guy, not a brand enthusiast, so if I see someone undeservedly trashing a decent car, I'll chime in. With the kind of beatings Mustang takes around here, I chime in often.

BTW,

The "Monday Car" is a myth. The majority of components are supplied by other companies and shipped into the plant. Probaby 70% of the car is built this way. This is not all happening in one day.


As far as the Bullitt...At least they were on authentic when it came to taking away equipment.

Blah Blah Blah... so they took away the foglamps which are useless anyway and the spoiler, which is tacky AND useless. What else did they decontent???

..With the compromises that Ford has traditionally made with this car, there are plenty of used cars that are superior to the new Mustang alternative.

Exactly what are all these compromises has ford made that negatively affect performance? If you say struts, I'll say BMW uses them. If you say solid axle, I'll say camaro uses them. So what are they?

 

I don't think it has anything to do with who it comes from, it's pretty easy to look up in this age of Google & Yahoo.

Comparing V8 stick shift to stick shift, from 1982 onward till the 4th gen in 1993, Mustang 5.0s (especially the 3200lb 5.0 coupe) generally put a hurting on Irocs & Z28s every single year. The Camaros, however, were superior in road holding (Mustangs were notoriously tail light... again, especially the coupes) and when the 305s finally got to 220 then 230hp, they had much higher top speeds.

Only trouble was, all of Camaro's capabilities were high up where you needed alot of road &/or alot of *****. Mustang's strengths were down low where in day to day combat, they did infact put a hurting on plenty of Zs & IROCs.

 

yeah,tell me about it,the 5.0 ruled!!since we're benchracing old cars,does anyone have any quarter-mile times for a 1910 ford model T touring?me and this idiot at work have been arguing all week,he thinks his 1910 buick model 10 was the top dog back in the day,i say it was the T!any fool knows a T will wipe the floor with those buicks!either way,the buick or the model T is better than that damn curved-dash olds,those are for girls.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ProudPony
[B]Actually, I gotta disagree there Derek. While I adamantly loved that chase scene, for years it was my favorite too.

BUT - after last years release of the ORIGINAL Gone in 60 Seconds... I am totally WON OVER by that flick!

48 minutes of non-stop car chase scene with NO CINEMATOGRAPHY or enhancements. Wrecks are wrecks. Jumps are jumps. 132 cars destroyed in that movie. And the ORIGINAL ELEANOR (not a '67 GT500 either) still doing powerslides and donuts TODAY after being beat all to H**L.

It ROCKS.


Yes, The Original Gone in 60 Seconds was AWESOME. I've never seen a better chase scene. Also its lots of fun watching those high powered police cars of the day melting rubber chasing after Eleanor.

On the Bullitt Mustang, I know I read somewhere a couple of years ago that during the production of the movie that they pulled the Ford motor out of the Mustang and replaced it with a Chevy 302 ci. out of a Camaro?????? Anybody heard of this I know I read it in Motor Trend or Car and Driver or some car magazine. I'll look through my archives and see if I can find the article. I remember it clearly because I remember my dad pointing it out to me and told me to read the article.

 

I've never been a Mustang fan, but I did have friends that were (are). However, as much as I have always been a "Camaroman" even I could appreciate completely badass Mustangs... like my buddy's dad who had a '68 Shelby GT-500 KR Convertible. Talk about BAD!!!!

Elenore and the Bullitt fastback would bow in defeat to that badboy!