Anybody catch the Motor Trend's story "Bang for the Bucks" in the January '05 issue? They listed what they thought were the five best bang for the buck cars under $30K. Imagine that, NO GM products made the list! Funny thing is, I don't think the Cobalt SS would have made the list even if they were already out.

I have to say, I've officially given up on GM. I have ZERO interest in anything they make other than the Corvette (& maybe the STS), which I can't afford. I have ZERO interest in whether or not they come out with a new Camaro! I never thought I'd say that, but it's true! I'm just sick and tired of feeling like I'm settling on something because it's American and because I get GMS pricing.

My wife is getting a new car next spring/summer. It will probably be either a Subaru Legacy GT (technically 20% GM) or a Mazdaspeed 6 (technically ~50% Ford). I'm ashamed of the fact I'm not buying American, especially since I work in the auto industry, but the big 3 really have nothing that competes in that class.

 

I don't know if its coincidence or what...but as soon as Red left, seems most of the people that come to this board have lost faith

 

Hey, don't feel bad about buying a Subie - They have many employees in the good 'ol US of A, and in fact, the Legacy is made in Indiana. Chances are, you know at least one of them.

Besides, loyalty is a two way street and GM hasn't held up their end of the bargain.

 

I remember Motor Trend did one of those bang for the buck articles somewhere around 94, just after the 4th gen came out. If I remember correctly, they said the camaro z28 at that time was possibly the best bang for the buck ever. It smoked the competition.
I also remember that when the 4th gen came out, Motor Trend picked the new ford probe gt as their domestic car of the year. A few months later, Camaro killed it in the bang for the buck article. They obviously gave the COY award to the wrong car.

 

I think the reason people are losing faith/giving up is because they've been given no substansial proof that a 5th generation car is in the works. I am trying so hard not to jump on the doomsday for GM bandwagon...but it's difficult not to. I mean, who is to say that if GM brings back the Camaro that it will even be the car enthusiasts want? Or if it will sell without huge rebates and incentives? The Cobalt SS looks cool but it takes 2nd place to the SRT-4 in performance. Can the base model Cobalt become it's class's leading seller? We'd better hope so...

If there is a new Camaro, it's sucess will hinge on it's V6 base model's features, looks, and peformance versus the base Mustang's. GM has to build a car that will SELL, first and foremost.

But if recent history is any indicator, there is just as little proof they can build cars people want to buy as there is proof an affordable Mustang fighter is on the way.

Like I said before, I'm sorry if this post comes across as GM bashing...I just wish they'd either tell us to keep on hoping, that it'll get here, or that they're out of the ponycar wars.

 

I'm pretty sure you're right! I think I do know one of them. I think he needs to find out for me what kind of discount he can get me on a Subaru.

That second statement couldn't be more true. GM has shown nothing to convince me they are interested in the consumer. Everything they do is about "enhancing shareholder value", not improving the product for the consumer.

If I were in the market for a small SUV, it would be an Equinox. For a full size pickup truck, it would be a Silverado. Otherwise

The rule on the foreign cars is that they either have to have major U.S. parts/labor content or if they are 100% foreign made they have to be 50% or more owned by one of the big 3. A Volvo S40 T5 AWD is also on the wifes list, but I think it's a little too small for her liking. I tried convincing her a Saab was nice, but she didn't think they were stylish enough. Oddly, her favorite car right now is a Cadillac CTS but since it doesn't come in AWD, it's off the list. She's never driven in snow before, let alone a RWD car in the snow.

 

That bang-4-buck motortrend article back in 1994 is what sold me on getting a Camaro Z28 back in 94 and the base price of a Z28 back then was $17,999.00 I believe.

 

I wonder if the LS4 Grand Prix would have made the list

Check out the American Muscle is back article. It gives a lot of hope for us GM performance fans with a good job. They talk about the 500HP Z06, 515HP CTSv, 400+HP supercharged STS, SRX, & XLR.

Lets also not forget the 400HP LS2 GTO, SSR, & '06 TrailBlazer SS.

 

Not a single one of those is under $30k, and the majority cost signifigantly more.

We dont need leather. We dont need onstar. We dont need 6 disc cd changers. We dont need power ashtrays. We need glorious simplicity. N/A V8, manual transmission, RWD. Make the other stuff optional, but theres no reason to have another performance model that has five or ten grand worth of googaws tacked onto the badass driveline version of the vehicle.

I mean, Im not going to order a V8 with no air, no stereo, and manual windows, but I dont need lighted key slots and ventilated seats either yanno?

 

Exactly. Nailed it right there.

 

I don't know about GM, but with rebates and deals, the last two cars I've bought (new) were both Fords, mainly because of 'bang for buck'.
I wasn't interested in a pony car, or anything 'sporty' but bang for buck, a base model Mustang at 15k was a steal. I got it at invoice (before rebates, of course). Same with my truck, and even got another $1,000 back for financing it through Ford (I was going to pay cash).

The big three are trying to get volume, not quality.

I agree though. If I wanted something unique OR high quality, I'd buy ***. Ford and GM have come a long way (though I still hear a lot of bad from new GM buyers, but I'm hoping I'm wrong generally), but they can't compete with the Japs.

The big three just don't see the market (demand) change, and are focusing on supply instead. That, and short term stock value goals.

 

The reliability of big 3 models has made a comeback. They are close to the Japanese. Where they still lack is in "perceived" quality. This is perceived quality of materials, low NVH, etc. It's like all GM aspires to is to be the value leader of the industry. It would be nice to see GM be the benchmark for other companies for once. It seems like all the big 3 benchmark all other auto manufacturers cars and then shoot for 90% because that's what they do well. It's sad, really.

As far as discounts, I get GMS and A plan. Due to being employed by a large tier 1 supplier, I also get supplier discount on Chrysler products. There still is not much I'm interested in. Keep in mind I get steep discounts + the rebates. I'm still not interested.

Edit: I have to add, I really didn't like the new Mustang when I first saw them but it is really starting to grow on me. That may wind up being my next new car in a couple years (have to get the wife's first).

 

The question isn't whether or not GM has performance offerings or even whether or not they are good.

The question is can GM offer class leading performance at a competitive price?

The cars they do have at a remotely competitive price aren't surpassing thier competitors. Cobalt SS, Silverado SS and some others.

The GTO and SSR both fail miserably as halo cars, apparently GM didn't know a halo can't look like 80% of the brand? You don't see a bowtie-crossbar on the C6 now do you? And they are overpriced.

 

not sure the gto wants to sport the "halo" image in the traditional sense
it has to be like other pontiacs because that's what it always has been
i think it just gets slapped with the halo thing because they really don't have anything as a halo car in the first place

 

Yeah as much as I have enjoyed my '95 Camaro and 2000 GTP I see nothing from GM that I would like to buy right out of college. I'm not going to be able to buy something for over 30 grand right out of school. I'll probably be heading over to Ford for my first "new car" purchase. My entire family drives Fords anyway. The new Mustnag looks better and better to me every day. And you cant beat the factory support that car gets. I'll will prob also buy a 1995 Z28 to restore and play with just because the 4th gen was my first car and I fell in love with it. But yeah unless I hit the lotto its looking harder and harder to be a GM fan. Oh well I'll still be around here. This is going to be a classic car site in time anyway.