Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
As the title states, lets keep this to the past 20 or so years. No 67 Camaros, 73 TA's etc. Circa 1980 to 2004. And GM cars only, since this is after all a GM board. My critria for determining significance doesn't mean it had to be a good seller neccessarily, but had to be either revolutionary or the forebearer of a automotive trend. Try to keep it at no more than 5 cars.
My canidates:
C5 Corvette - Became the benchmark for sports cars all over the world, and elevated the Corvette to a world class sports car. Intro'd radically new Gen III V8, hydroformed frame, transaxle, etc.
Cadillac CTS - Gave Caddy a much needed winner design wise, and some much needed buzz. Intro'd Sigma platform, which started the on-going RWD Reniassance. World class sports sedan with platform flexibility.
Fiero - gtjeff has convinced me that this car was very ahead of its time. Spaceframe offered flexibility and safety, technology that would later be applied to Saturns and C5s. First ever two seat mid-engine American made car, if I recall. It's a shame that GM gave up on this car when it finally got it right.
Holden V cars - When its all said and done, this car is likely to be one of the ancestors to our 5th gen Camaro. The two door Monaro version demonstrated the flexibility (sorry to use this as a catch word) needed for GM's future RWD cars.
Honorable mentions:
Olds Aurora - GM probably intended this car to be revolutionary, but didn't deliver the Oldsmobile brand like GM had hoped. If GM could have applied some of this magic to the rest of the Olds lineup, it may still have been here today.
Buick's turbo Regals - As guionM pointed out in another thread, they never really fit into the Buick lineup, but they were very much ahead of their time performance-wise. Similar engines were used in Indy cars of the 1980s as well. Imagine how far ahead of the game GM could have been if they continued to develop a car with this kind of performance potential.
Syclone/Typhoon - Before S/C'ed Lightnings, and Viper powered Rams, Sys and Tys were THE performance truck. Way ahead of their time much like the turbo Regal.
ZR-1 Corvette - The performance was there, but costly. The Z06 has carried the torch to a degree, and for alot less $$$.
My canidates:
C5 Corvette - Became the benchmark for sports cars all over the world, and elevated the Corvette to a world class sports car. Intro'd radically new Gen III V8, hydroformed frame, transaxle, etc.
Cadillac CTS - Gave Caddy a much needed winner design wise, and some much needed buzz. Intro'd Sigma platform, which started the on-going RWD Reniassance. World class sports sedan with platform flexibility.
Fiero - gtjeff has convinced me that this car was very ahead of its time. Spaceframe offered flexibility and safety, technology that would later be applied to Saturns and C5s. First ever two seat mid-engine American made car, if I recall. It's a shame that GM gave up on this car when it finally got it right.
Holden V cars - When its all said and done, this car is likely to be one of the ancestors to our 5th gen Camaro. The two door Monaro version demonstrated the flexibility (sorry to use this as a catch word) needed for GM's future RWD cars.
Honorable mentions:
Olds Aurora - GM probably intended this car to be revolutionary, but didn't deliver the Oldsmobile brand like GM had hoped. If GM could have applied some of this magic to the rest of the Olds lineup, it may still have been here today.
Buick's turbo Regals - As guionM pointed out in another thread, they never really fit into the Buick lineup, but they were very much ahead of their time performance-wise. Similar engines were used in Indy cars of the 1980s as well. Imagine how far ahead of the game GM could have been if they continued to develop a car with this kind of performance potential.
Syclone/Typhoon - Before S/C'ed Lightnings, and Viper powered Rams, Sys and Tys were THE performance truck. Way ahead of their time much like the turbo Regal.
ZR-1 Corvette - The performance was there, but costly. The Z06 has carried the torch to a degree, and for alot less $$$.
Here is my list:
EV1-May have been a commercial flop but was first GM production vehicle with alum chassis and also had cd rating of .19. If only this chassis would be used on a sports car.
Fiero-Sixer is very wise. First production space frame with plastic panels, throw in a built in roll cage to boot. It is sturdy enough to stand on the roof of the car! Everyone thinks of the Corvette as always using cutting edge technology, why did it take them 13 years after fiero intro to switch to a space frame? Of course the Corvette guys did all they could to get the car cancelled. Just imagine if Pontiac would have been allowed to bring the alum chassis fiero to market as planned with more hp. Good night Corvette.
87 Buick GNX/89 Turbo Trans AM-They were revolutionary because the Corvette rule was put for a short time "on hiatus".
Cts-v-Will bring a whole new segment of buyers to GM.
EV1-May have been a commercial flop but was first GM production vehicle with alum chassis and also had cd rating of .19. If only this chassis would be used on a sports car.
Fiero-Sixer is very wise. First production space frame with plastic panels, throw in a built in roll cage to boot. It is sturdy enough to stand on the roof of the car! Everyone thinks of the Corvette as always using cutting edge technology, why did it take them 13 years after fiero intro to switch to a space frame? Of course the Corvette guys did all they could to get the car cancelled. Just imagine if Pontiac would have been allowed to bring the alum chassis fiero to market as planned with more hp. Good night Corvette.
87 Buick GNX/89 Turbo Trans AM-They were revolutionary because the Corvette rule was put for a short time "on hiatus".
Cts-v-Will bring a whole new segment of buyers to GM.
Re: Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Originally posted by Sixer-Bird
As the title states, lets keep this to the past 20 or so years. No 67 Camaros, 73 TA's etc. Circa 1980 to 2004. And GM cars only, since this is after all a GM board. My critria for determining significance doesn't mean it had to be a good seller neccessarily, but had to be either revolutionary or the forebearer of a automotive trend. Try to keep it at no more than 5 cars.
My canidates:
C5 Corvette - Became the benchmark for sports cars all over the world, and elevated the Corvette to a world class sports car. Intro'd radically new Gen III V8, hydroformed frame, transaxle, etc.
Cadillac CTS - Gave Caddy a much needed winner design wise, and some much needed buzz. Intro'd Sigma platform, which started the on-going RWD Reniassance. World class sports sedan with platform flexibility.
Fiero - gtjeff has convinced me that this car was very ahead of its time. Spaceframe offered flexibility and safety, technology that would later be applied to Saturns and C5s. First ever two seat mid-engine American made car, if I recall. It's a shame that GM gave up on this car when it finally got it right.
Holden V cars - When its all said and done, this car is likely to be one of the ancestors to our 5th gen Camaro. The two door Monaro version demonstrated the flexibility (sorry to use this as a catch word) needed for GM's future RWD cars.
Honorable mentions:
Olds Aurora - GM probably intended this car to be revolutionary, but didn't deliver the Oldsmobile brand like GM had hoped. If GM could have applied some of this magic to the rest of the Olds lineup, it may still have been here today.
Buick's turbo Regals - As guionM pointed out in another thread, they never really fit into the Buick lineup, but they were very much ahead of their time performance-wise. Similar engines were used in Indy cars of the 1980s as well. Imagine how far ahead of the game GM could have been if they continued to develop a car with this kind of performance potential.
Syclone/Typhoon - Before S/C'ed Lightnings, and Viper powered Rams, Sys and Tys were THE performance truck. Way ahead of their time much like the turbo Regal.
ZR-1 Corvette - The performance was there, but costly. The Z06 has carried the torch to a degree, and for alot less $$$.
As the title states, lets keep this to the past 20 or so years. No 67 Camaros, 73 TA's etc. Circa 1980 to 2004. And GM cars only, since this is after all a GM board. My critria for determining significance doesn't mean it had to be a good seller neccessarily, but had to be either revolutionary or the forebearer of a automotive trend. Try to keep it at no more than 5 cars.
My canidates:
C5 Corvette - Became the benchmark for sports cars all over the world, and elevated the Corvette to a world class sports car. Intro'd radically new Gen III V8, hydroformed frame, transaxle, etc.
Cadillac CTS - Gave Caddy a much needed winner design wise, and some much needed buzz. Intro'd Sigma platform, which started the on-going RWD Reniassance. World class sports sedan with platform flexibility.
Fiero - gtjeff has convinced me that this car was very ahead of its time. Spaceframe offered flexibility and safety, technology that would later be applied to Saturns and C5s. First ever two seat mid-engine American made car, if I recall. It's a shame that GM gave up on this car when it finally got it right.
Holden V cars - When its all said and done, this car is likely to be one of the ancestors to our 5th gen Camaro. The two door Monaro version demonstrated the flexibility (sorry to use this as a catch word) needed for GM's future RWD cars.
Honorable mentions:
Olds Aurora - GM probably intended this car to be revolutionary, but didn't deliver the Oldsmobile brand like GM had hoped. If GM could have applied some of this magic to the rest of the Olds lineup, it may still have been here today.
Buick's turbo Regals - As guionM pointed out in another thread, they never really fit into the Buick lineup, but they were very much ahead of their time performance-wise. Similar engines were used in Indy cars of the 1980s as well. Imagine how far ahead of the game GM could have been if they continued to develop a car with this kind of performance potential.
Syclone/Typhoon - Before S/C'ed Lightnings, and Viper powered Rams, Sys and Tys were THE performance truck. Way ahead of their time much like the turbo Regal.
ZR-1 Corvette - The performance was there, but costly. The Z06 has carried the torch to a degree, and for alot less $$$.
I'll add to the list:
The 1985 IROC-Z for adding some excitment back into the Camaro line.
The 1993 Z28 for bringing world class performance back to the line.
The 1990 Turbo Grand Prix, which I think will be a collector vehicle someday... for being a 1-year wonder.
Syclone/Typhoon for bringing performance to the truck and SUV market (as good or bad as that may be
)
Re: Re: Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Originally posted by Darth Xed
. Plus, if it was so ahead of it's time..... where is the "Fiero" of today from General Motors?
. Plus, if it was so ahead of it's time..... where is the "Fiero" of today from General Motors?
Re: Re: Re: Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Originally posted by gtjeff
It is in Europe in the form of the Vauxhal vx220 and Opel Speedster mid-engine, alum space frame with plastic panels all for a cost of only 28-32k. While this isnt an economy model, it is still a bargain-most other alum chassis cars cost much more.
It is in Europe in the form of the Vauxhal vx220 and Opel Speedster mid-engine, alum space frame with plastic panels all for a cost of only 28-32k. While this isnt an economy model, it is still a bargain-most other alum chassis cars cost much more.
1) It's not a Pontiac.
2) It's not even available on our side of the planet.
3) It's not priced anywhere near what Fiero would be today if it stayed in the same price catagory...
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1. IROC Models. Just gotta give it to them, because they re-breathed life into a mundane camaro line-up at the time. And perhaps saved its performance. If notfor these models perhaps the 350 wouldnt have been re-introduced into the F-body.
2. GN's/Turbo TA. I dont want to waste two spots with these, because while they are respected cars today, and I feel important they didnt really make a lasting impact as there arent any Turbo V6s in major production today.
3. C4 . Its hard to keep a line fresh for 50+ years, but the C4 made a great transformation from the C3, and kept performance alive with the L98 and LT1.
4. C5. See above, but it was really even more dramatic with the introduction of the gen III small block.
5. Ram Air WS6 LS1 T/As. Wow, just wow. ANything that can look pissed off and intimidating just sitting still deservees to make my list.
2. GN's/Turbo TA. I dont want to waste two spots with these, because while they are respected cars today, and I feel important they didnt really make a lasting impact as there arent any Turbo V6s in major production today.
3. C4 . Its hard to keep a line fresh for 50+ years, but the C4 made a great transformation from the C3, and kept performance alive with the L98 and LT1.
4. C5. See above, but it was really even more dramatic with the introduction of the gen III small block.
5. Ram Air WS6 LS1 T/As. Wow, just wow. ANything that can look pissed off and intimidating just sitting still deservees to make my list.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Originally posted by Darth Xed
Point taken, however:
1) It's not a Pontiac.
2) It's not even available on our side of the planet.
3) It's not priced anywhere near what Fiero would be today if it stayed in the same price catagory...
Point taken, however:
1) It's not a Pontiac.
2) It's not even available on our side of the planet.
3) It's not priced anywhere near what Fiero would be today if it stayed in the same price catagory...
'88 GM full size trucks - They started the trend of car like trucks and shocked the world (if I remember right) by offering IFS on all models.
GM EV1 - Sure it was a flop, but a very bold move for a mfg not readily associated with bold moves.
C4 - brought the Corvette back to performance prominence
Fiero - the sporty little roust-a-bout that captures a larger audience's imagination
Caddilac CTS and CTS-V: Cadillac's true start to returning to world class comptetiveness.
Honorable mention:
'82 Camaro: missed the timeline, but the 3rg gens were as revolutionary to the 2nd gens as the 1970 model was to the 1st gen.
GM Hywire concept: one chassis many bodies for different situations and customers, very cool thinking.
GEO Tracker - started the cute-ute thing, just decided not to keep up.
GM EV1 - Sure it was a flop, but a very bold move for a mfg not readily associated with bold moves.
C4 - brought the Corvette back to performance prominence
Fiero - the sporty little roust-a-bout that captures a larger audience's imagination
Caddilac CTS and CTS-V: Cadillac's true start to returning to world class comptetiveness.
Honorable mention:
'82 Camaro: missed the timeline, but the 3rg gens were as revolutionary to the 2nd gens as the 1970 model was to the 1st gen.
GM Hywire concept: one chassis many bodies for different situations and customers, very cool thinking.
GEO Tracker - started the cute-ute thing, just decided not to keep up.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most significant GM cars of the past 20 years...
Originally posted by gtjeff
On point 1+2, I think you can thank Uncle Bob and his Solstice for those. Now that he is temporarily running GM Europe maybe he will look at the car like he did the Monaro. The top of the line 88gt stickered for 16-18k, with inflation they would be at least 25-30k today.
On point 1+2, I think you can thank Uncle Bob and his Solstice for those. Now that he is temporarily running GM Europe maybe he will look at the car like he did the Monaro. The top of the line 88gt stickered for 16-18k, with inflation they would be at least 25-30k today.
Fair enough.... I will not disagree with any of those...
But you also have to keep in mind that Fiero and any car like it has been gone from our showroom since 1988... so it's hard to lay it's absense solely on Solstice....
For me it´s the Fiero especially ´87 and ´88s. It had a timeless exterior design which looks still fresh today. When I owned a ´87 it was really a great car. It was quiet inside and looked awesome. And all this for a great price.
My other favorites are the
--´93 and up Camaro/Firebird and the
--´88 Bonneville for an interior that looked better than on any Pontiac 10 years later.
-- ´95 and up Buick Riviera
My favorites for the future will be the
Chevrolet Equinox
Pontiac Solstice
Chevrolet Nomad
My other favorites are the
--´93 and up Camaro/Firebird and the
--´88 Bonneville for an interior that looked better than on any Pontiac 10 years later.
-- ´95 and up Buick Riviera
My favorites for the future will be the
Chevrolet Equinox
Pontiac Solstice
Chevrolet Nomad
I also want to add that I think the kappa cars will be on this list in the future. Bringing out a small, light, RWD platform like this is a pretty bold move for GM.
I hope Zeta will have the same effect as well.
I hope Zeta will have the same effect as well.
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