Most powerful engine in a production GM car?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 373
From: Anywhere but here
Most powerful engine in a production GM car?
With all the talk of the new engines/models/etc coming from GM, I got to wondering what the most powerful engine GM every offered in a production car was.
To my knowledge it was the L88 Corvette engine, which although rated at 405ish by GM, was dynoing at closer to 550-560hp. I know that was a production car, but you couldn't get it with a heater or radio.
Has there been something more powerful than that ever offered to the public? The talk of the new C6's possible power numbers is what got me thinking the most.
To my knowledge it was the L88 Corvette engine, which although rated at 405ish by GM, was dynoing at closer to 550-560hp. I know that was a production car, but you couldn't get it with a heater or radio.
Has there been something more powerful than that ever offered to the public? The talk of the new C6's possible power numbers is what got me thinking the most.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,600
From: Pewee Valley, KY
I would think that the L88 would be outdone by its aluminum brother the ZL1 I mean that was a race engine, but only 69 total were made. If not that then how about the 455 SD trans am motors I don't know personally but I have heard that the pontiac motors made HUGE torque numbers.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Originally posted by 91_z28_4me
I would think that the L88 would be outdone by its aluminum brother the ZL1 I mean that was a race engine, but only 69 total were made. If not that then how about the 455 SD trans am motors I don't know personally but I have heard that the pontiac motors made HUGE torque numbers.
I would think that the L88 would be outdone by its aluminum brother the ZL1 I mean that was a race engine, but only 69 total were made. If not that then how about the 455 SD trans am motors I don't know personally but I have heard that the pontiac motors made HUGE torque numbers.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
future engines:
7.5L V12 500HP+ rumored to go into an Escalade V-series
twin turbo Northstar 450HP+ rumored for XLRv and STSv
C6 6.0L V8 400HP+
and then there is the HP3 8100 engine, 525 horsepower and more than 560 lb-ft of torque, but you can only get it in create form
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...ws/press16.htm
7.5L V12 500HP+ rumored to go into an Escalade V-series
twin turbo Northstar 450HP+ rumored for XLRv and STSv
C6 6.0L V8 400HP+
and then there is the HP3 8100 engine, 525 horsepower and more than 560 lb-ft of torque, but you can only get it in create form
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...ws/press16.htm
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
From an F-body perspective....
The 455-SD was rated at 290hp/395 ft-lbs, whereas the L-78 Camaros (396 ci in 1969, 402 ci in 1970) were rated at 375hp/415 ft-lbs. But I don't think you can actually compare the the two.
The 455-SD was rated at 290hp/395 ft-lbs, whereas the L-78 Camaros (396 ci in 1969, 402 ci in 1970) were rated at 375hp/415 ft-lbs. But I don't think you can actually compare the the two.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
First, remember that cars before 1972 and cars 1972 onward are rated by 2 entirely different standards.
Prior to 1972, all cars were rated by gross horsepower, pretty much measured by the engine sitting by itself on a dyno without even the alternator or anything else attached to it, at what ever conditions made the most power.
From 1972 onward, engines were rated by SAE net horsepower, which is pretty much as installed, at the flywheel, with production exhaust, production accessories, pollution equptment, and production intake system installed at a set temperture, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
What this means is that a 500hp pre 1972 engine actually makes less horsepower than a post 1972 engine making, say, 400hp.
In 1971 under the old standard, the LS5 made 365hp and the LT1 made 330. Under the new standard the following year, the LS5 and LT1 made 270hp and 255hp respectively, despite having the same pollution equptment as they did in 1971.
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
That would also make that 427 Holden small block very very impressive in 1971!
Prior to 1972, all cars were rated by gross horsepower, pretty much measured by the engine sitting by itself on a dyno without even the alternator or anything else attached to it, at what ever conditions made the most power.
From 1972 onward, engines were rated by SAE net horsepower, which is pretty much as installed, at the flywheel, with production exhaust, production accessories, pollution equptment, and production intake system installed at a set temperture, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
What this means is that a 500hp pre 1972 engine actually makes less horsepower than a post 1972 engine making, say, 400hp.
In 1971 under the old standard, the LS5 made 365hp and the LT1 made 330. Under the new standard the following year, the LS5 and LT1 made 270hp and 255hp respectively, despite having the same pollution equptment as they did in 1971.
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
That would also make that 427 Holden small block very very impressive in 1971!
Last edited by guionM; Feb 18, 2003 at 04:22 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 499
From: Miami, Fl USA
Originally posted by guionM
First, remember that cars before
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
First, remember that cars before
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
.....unless I missed something, Vipers aren't GM cars
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Originally posted by guionM
First, remember that cars before 1972 and cars 1972 onward are rated by 2 entirely different standards.
Prior to 1972, all cars were rated by gross horsepower, pretty much measured by the engine sitting by itself on a dyno without even the alternator or anything else attached to it, at what ever conditions made the most power.
From 1972 onward, engines were rated by SAE net horsepower, which is pretty much as installed, at the flywheel, with production exhaust, production accessories, pollution equptment, and production intake system installed at a set temperture, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
What this means is that a 500hp pre 1972 engine actually makes less horsepower than a post 1972 engine making, say, 400hp.
In 1971 under the old standard, the LS5 made 365hp and the LT1 made 330. Under the new standard the following year, the LS5 and LT1 made 270hp and 255hp respectively, despite having the same pollution equptment as they did in 1971.
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
That would also make that 427 Holden small block very very impressive in 1971!
First, remember that cars before 1972 and cars 1972 onward are rated by 2 entirely different standards.
Prior to 1972, all cars were rated by gross horsepower, pretty much measured by the engine sitting by itself on a dyno without even the alternator or anything else attached to it, at what ever conditions made the most power.
From 1972 onward, engines were rated by SAE net horsepower, which is pretty much as installed, at the flywheel, with production exhaust, production accessories, pollution equptment, and production intake system installed at a set temperture, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
What this means is that a 500hp pre 1972 engine actually makes less horsepower than a post 1972 engine making, say, 400hp.
In 1971 under the old standard, the LS5 made 365hp and the LT1 made 330. Under the new standard the following year, the LS5 and LT1 made 270hp and 255hp respectively, despite having the same pollution equptment as they did in 1971.
So it can argubly be said the current 500hp Viper engine is the most powerful production engine ever offered to the general public in a regular production car, since it would have in excess of 600hp by the old Gross Horsepower standard.
That would also make that 427 Holden small block very very impressive in 1971!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 373
From: Anywhere but here
Originally posted by guionM
First, remember that cars before 1972 and cars 1972 onward are rated by 2 entirely different standards.
First, remember that cars before 1972 and cars 1972 onward are rated by 2 entirely different standards.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by Ed 2001 SS
.....unless I missed something, Vipers aren't GM cars
.....unless I missed something, Vipers aren't GM cars
Didn't miss anything, my bad.
Well, in that case, perhaps a tie between the Z06 & ZR1 Corvettes? Both put out a maximum of 405hp, which would put it over 500 by the old standard, as much as (if not more than) the L88 Corvette.
I wouldn't exactly call the ZL1 a regular production engine since less than 6 dozen were made. There's back yard operations that make more engines than that.
Now, if you mean TORQUE then we may have a different story. Someone can look it up, but the old Cadillac 500cids V8s were toting 500 ft/lbs of torque under the newer lower standards.
Buick GNX of '71 had the same, but it was under the more generous rating.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 18, 2003 at 04:37 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by Meccadeth
Wow...is there a webpage citing all of this? Or is this your existing knowledge?
Wow...is there a webpage citing all of this? Or is this your existing knowledge?
If you want to dig out more info, it's called SAE Standard J1349, and it became the industry standard in April 1972, I think.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 18, 2003 at 04:48 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 658
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Originally posted by 91_z28_4me
I would think that the L88 would be outdone by its aluminum brother the ZL1 I mean that was a race engine, but only 69 total were made. If not that then how about the 455 SD trans am motors I don't know personally but I have heard that the pontiac motors made HUGE torque numbers.
I would think that the L88 would be outdone by its aluminum brother the ZL1 I mean that was a race engine, but only 69 total were made. If not that then how about the 455 SD trans am motors I don't know personally but I have heard that the pontiac motors made HUGE torque numbers.