SVT is out to defend the performance vehicle niche they initiated. This time they're upping the ante with a better performing SVT Focus, possibly the rumored four-wheel-drive, 300-hp Cosworth variant. If true, looks like Ford isn't worried about stepping on the toes of their top-dog Mustang; this would easily outperform all but the S/C Cobra. Even if horsepower comes in around the 200-250 level, a car weighing 500lbs less than the Mustang will put up some nice numbers. Another notch on the affordable-performance belt of Ford...

Oh yeah, we're getting a $35,000+ limited run (marked up) GTO, $40,000+ CTSv, and a $70,000+ XLR. I bet our mighty FWD S/C V6 Impala will even top $30,000. Has GM completely forgot the little guy?

Photos and story

[This message has been edited by jrp4uc (edited September 10, 2002).]

 

wow. That thing would rock. The lancer evo and wrx STI are coming to our shores. Both would be packing somewhere in the high 200's. So it'd make sense if ford was trying to position it's focus to stay competitive.

So we have, will, or "might" be seeing these within the next couple of years. Some are already out as 03 models. Others as 04/05.

*300hp Mercury marauder
*330+hp S/c mercury marauder
*400-440hp S/c cobra
*500hp GT-40
*320-340hp 4.6L N/A Mustang Mach 1
*400hp N/A 5.0L Lincoln Ls
*400 N/A Mustang dubbed the "BOSS"
*possible return of the cougar as a mustang twin with a v8 to boot
*current 170hp Svt focus and now a possible 300hp turbo version
*A Harley Edition F-150 crew cab with the lightnings S/c 5.4L.
*Hopefuly in bumb in power for the Lightning as well.

I'm liking the new ford. It's about time they got serious about performance.

[This message has been edited by RiceEating5.0 (edited September 11, 2002).]

 

Well, what can I say...

I like the little car, and I'm sure it will be a great sales booster for SVT - hopefully grabbing some performance rice buyers from Honda and Toyota.

But on the other hand, I feel like I am watching potential sales of Mustangs dwindle down yet a few more notches. You know the Focus will have better insurance rates, be cheaper out the door, be more economical (it should be anyways), and easier to live with in congested areas (parking, etc).

I just can't help being a little nervous seeing all these smaller econo-rockets coming into production. The beautiful light emitted by the True American Ponycars may indeed be growing dimmer by the day. With Camaro/Firebird not around to keep Mustang on-line anymore, and previous ponycar owners now in WRX's, Neons, Focus', and more enthusiasts looking at them every day... :sighs, rolls eyes, shrugs:

 

ProudPony, i think the number one contributor to the mustangs marketing/sales success is the name and the pony badge. The mustang name has always stirred up excitement and interest. The excitement was recently upped with the introduction of such exciting models as the Bullit, Mach 1, 03 cobra, Cobra R, and what ever special edition mustang ford has planned. Saleen, roush, KB, Steeda, Shinoda BOSS, etc...all do their part. Ford should keep on doing what they've been doing cause the mustang brand has been a large success thus far. Not bad considering it's been around for 38 years.

There' s a reason why the mustang sold over 200,000+, and 170,000 units the last 2 year. Sure, it's main competitor the f-bod's combined were struggling to meet 70k. But 200,000+ units is excellent at this day and age of rice rockets. That proves that the pony car isn't dead and that there's still a market. The mustang is still a great bargain even with the introdiction and increasing popularity of hopped up 4 bangers. You can walk out with a nicely equipped 5spd mustang v6 coupe for as little as 15grand. A Gt which comes with nice standard equipment for around 22k. A 320-340hp Mach 1 for aorund 27k. And now the fully loaded Cobra coupe with exotic car like power, acceleration, and potential for under 35g's.
This focus would/will be very sweet, but there are people out there that buy the mustang for what it is. I personally wouldn't have the mustang any other way (maybe with a little more power). People who are in the market for a pony car will buy a pony car. Other's considering a sporty sport compact will go for the focus.

Having said that, i don't see it competing head to head with the mustang or stealing it's sales. I see it more like it competing head to head with other sport compacts such as the WRX Sti, Lancer Evo, Neon SRT-4, etc...

Just my 0.02 cents.

 

Don't forget that the Lightning has been out for a few years, and it ran with, or maybe even quicker, than Cobra till now.

Shouldn't count dealer markups. Limited edition Firebirds & Anniversary Camaros went for $45,000 around here, though GM priced them lower. The very 1st SN95s here in San Diego were going for $25-30,000... in 1994! I'd be willing to bet that when the next Camaro comes out, some dealers are going to slap big fat markups. Just simply find one who's more reasonable. At $35,000, GTO is competitive with the S/C Cobra.

But give GM a little time. Things started happening there just over a year ago, and they are comming out with alot of temporary measures till the good stuff can come out. Supercharged GrandAm, Supercharged Impala SS, Grand Prix's power jump to 280 (despite GM Powertrains reservations), and not quite finally, GTO.

I know it's lame to say this because it doesn't hep us today, but 2-3 years from now, we'll have an entirely different view of GM.

 

RiceEating5.0,
Hey I'm totally with you on the Mustang - loyal buyers... heaven knows I'm one of those myself. I agree that a buyer that knows the car and wants it will buy it regardless.

My point was aimed at John Doe, who has @$15-20k and wants a car. He is @18 yrs old, doesn't know much about Camaros or Mustangs or musclecars at all (computer geek guy maybe?). He doesn't care if he buys a Toyota or a BMW, he just wants to look good, go fast, and not spend much money.

Today, John Doe would likely be forced to look at Camaro or Mustang due to his "need for speed" and low budget, but not for sure and certainly not much longer with all these rice-rockets coming out. My sentiment is that if this guy can get a 280hp Focus with go-fast goodies like brakes, suspension, etc. for a similar price of a 260hp GT - he's gonna buy it. Never mind the economy, insurance, and other associated costs. And I can't blame him either. The point is that becomes a "lost sale" for the Mustang.

I appologize for sounding like I was counting out the Mustang in the previous post - that's not what I meant. I think it is positioned very well to continue on for a long time, and I doubt that Ford will let it die anytime soon. It has a HUGE and loyal following - but people get old and desires change. Mustang needs to keep attracting new buyers too. If it has to someday be converted into a turboed FWD "Focus replacement" to be attractive to new buyers and make itself profitable, I won't like it.

Ergo the comments about needing the f-cars back to have a direct competitor and design target for the Mustang. It just emphasizes the importance that clubs and collectors STAY INVOLVED and ACTIVE in keeping the car to it's heritage from this point forward.
In hind sight, I think that if Camaro/Firebird owners had been heard and payed attention to, the 4th gen would have had it's makeover years ago, and a healthy-selling f-car would still be on the lots today. That's just my .02 though. We just can't let that happen to the Mustang.

Coining a new term here... "Rice Rocket Erosion"
In context... "Mustang sales may suffer from "Rice Rocket Erosion" over the next five years as cheaper cars come onto the scene that are capable of outperforming it and for less money."

Peace.

 

I agree with you. As the options increase, so does the competition. The sales #'s wouldn't be as lopsided, unless 1 brand is that much better. For instance; a car like a new Hemi charger would definitely have somewhat of an affect on mustang sales. The addition of a new 5th gen would too. The upcomig supra, Rx8, etc... all will too. Ahhh, too many good performance cars. We haven't seen anything like this in a long time.

As for insurance/economy, will it really be that much cheaper or ecnomical? it is a "Turbocharged" 4 banger geared/marketed as a performance car. I look at turbo eclipses and they don't seem that much cheaper. I don't know if the initial power levels have anything to do with your premiums but at 280hp, the car is fast. Faster=more of a risk to the insurance company. Another factor is age. Average age of people that buy sport compacts is relatively young/low. So i still think that a car like this would be far from cheap to insure. As for the economy part, i don't know. 280+ hp doesn't always equal economical, especially if you have a heavy foot . This Focus like all the other low displacement engines might be geared lower and it "might" rely on Rpm's for a good chunk of it power. For instance, the lighter s2k with the 240hp 2.0 gets about 21 city mpg and about the same mpg as a GT/Cobra on the highway. The s2k is lighter and less powerful. With the addition of an AWD system, you'd be looking at close to 3,000lbs for this focus (same weight as Lancer Evo). So again, i don't see it as it being that much more economical then a GT mustang. Especially after some performance driving. Of course, your average buyer might not realize that till he/she actually buys and owns the car first hand. They might just assume that since it's a 4 vs 8, that the 8 would automatically be much less ecnomical. This car is far from the econo sport compacts we're so used to seeing. It's a very legit performance car.

This thing will be a strip/track terror. The Svt focus handles very well. With the stock suspension and a few bolt ons, i have a feeling it'd run circles around a stock 03 Cobra. Like you said, this could have an affect on GT sales. Factor in such things as better build quality, interior design, and the little things that make a car more livable and it just might sway potential buyers.

Any guesses on the price? mid 20's sound about right to you guys? i assume since it's main competitors will be in the high 20's and even low 30's range (WRX STi - Lancer EVO)

 

RiceEating5.0,
We are on the same track now.

I agree with your last post. Granted, the more mundane buyer wont likely even know about the SVT Focus (and only certain dealers are SVT certified sellers too) and won't even see them on the lot, therefore the buyer of the SVT Focus will likely "drive" the car a little more agressively. There goes best mileage, economy, etc - and there goes the insurace rates.

I'll say this though, if that new 280hp rascal comes around for anything near $20-grand... they are gonna sell like $1-dollar hot dogs at a NASCAR race! There may even be one in my driveway... to keep the miles off the others, you know.

 

quote from RiceEating 5.0: THANK YOU for introducing some sorely-needed reality into this thread. There's no 'free lunch' in high-performance cars. No cheap, easy, low-insurance way to put 250-300 hp to the ground in a new car driven by hormone-laden young men. Insurance rates are driven partly by replacement cost, but HEAVILY by driver behavior and claims. And cars like this will have a lot of claims, just like today's muscle cars do. AWD - you bet your sweet bippy it drags along an inevitable weight penalty. All the truly FAST cars in the world are RWD. MPG will be underwhelming too. Welcome to Planet Earth. I will applaud Ford *if* such a vehicle happens, it will be cool to see. But let's keep it real.

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Sunset Orange Met. 2002 Trans Am, DF Lid, FRA, K&N | DFGreen 98 GTP, Insulated SLP K&N, !U!Res, 3.5 Pulley, transcooler
| Brilliant Red Metallic 1990 IROC-Z Camaro, K&N, Camaro SS takeoff muffler | NBM 99 Formula, SOLD in Aug. 02.

 

Your basis for these projected prices is very questionable, but believe whatever you prefer

Why all this talk about the V6 Impala SS? I thought it's going to have a 4.8 V8? Also you conveniently omitted the 2004 GTP with 280 hp (granted it's FWD), the regular CTS and the performance parts coming from GM for the Grand Am and Sunfire/Cav. But go ahead, have another swig of GM-Haterade...

 

Give me a break, I'm just presenting the facts. Where are those price estimates off base? FWD GTPs and Impalas? Auto trans only? Come on. Who's the one doing the reaching here. The only add-on parts I've seen for the Cavalier/Sunfire are appearance packages and the CTS is still a $30k in the least. If you're saying you'd rather have that torque-steer-laden, FWD automatic GTP over an AWD manual ANYTHING with 200+ hp turbo you are sadly in the minority. GM-Haterade? How about taking off the GM rose-colored-glasses and looking at what's infront of you.

[This message has been edited by jrp4uc (edited September 13, 2002).]

 

There will always be a market for musclecars and sportscars. Thats just the way it is.

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Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited September 13, 2002).]

 

I hope you're right!!

 

I'm very sorry... I owe you all an APOLOGY...
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I misspelled "Haterade"... Should be "Hatorade"!!!

How about the GTO price you quoted. The exact price has not even been announced yet, how can you call your number a fact? All that HAS been said officially was when Bob Kraut announced it would be "between $30k and $35k". Perhaps that means it will start at $30k? Is there ANY way to factually refute that at this point? I doubt it. Mustang fans are quick to point out how easy it is to avoid being scalped on a 2003 Cobra purchase... how will the GTO be any different?

If you choose to believe a GTP cannot be a real street performer, you're in for a shock sooner or later when you encounter one with the right parts Ignorance is bliss, until you get SMOKED!

CTS pricing... STARTS at $29,350 and GM is offering their heavy discounts on the CTS too now... bringing the starting price WAY under this ridiculous and arbitrary $30k mark people seem so obsessed with lately.

Can't get hi-po parts for the Sunfire? WRONG.

http://www.modified.com/culture/arti...13-130002.html

GM is offering a supercharger kit and enhanced internals for the 2.4L Ecotec. And judging from GM's rich performance history, that's just the beginning

 

You should apologize for missing the point. GM has no real performance cars that are affordable (READ LOW $20Ks). I think that was pretty clearly stated. Even at $30k, the GTO is not at that same level of affordability. Just the facts? The 4.8L Impala SS you countered with is hardly factual. The J-body? Good for GM, they're offering a S/C. I had one of those for years as an economical commuter car and I don't see myself stepping back into one as a "performance car." Slapping a S/C on a piece of crap doesn't automatically turn it into a great car. Don't get me wrong in all this. I'm glad GM is making steps in the right direction and I think they'll have big things at the next NAIAS. However, there hasn't been anything "officially" announced that can be considered a real affordable performance offering.

BTW, it's been my WRX smoking the GTPs so far, though I hardly go around street racing much anymore. Handling would be no contest regardless of his pulley mods. But I always like that argument..."you better watch, one of these days"...'Cause when he (or even someone in an F-body) runs into a Fiero with a V8 conversion, you're REALLY gonna be SMOKED.

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-JERRY-
'02 Impreza WRX
'88 Fiero Formula
Formerly owned: '93 Firebird Formula