As a big pontiac fan myself, these posts always make me laugh and cry at the same time. There are some good ideas in here, Guy, Evok, Z28x among others, that are so simple to implement but yet GMdoes nothing. Is the beauracracy at GM that bad, or is GM's leadership that lacking?

Going by what Guy said, if Pontiac can get up to 600k units a year, how can GM not step up and initiate some kind of revival at Pontiac? Doesn't seem like it would take much resources to do it?

 

That's essentially what the G8 proposal was to be. And maybe it still might happen, we'll see. But it certainly isn't a nearly done deal like the Chevy sedan is. Importing a volume product from Holden has issues regarding that volume. Perhaps when the 2nd Holden/DAT plant is running in Korea, that may be more viable.

And therein lies one of Pontiac's concerns....no W-car replacement....so far.

 

Something like

 

Though the RWD Chevy sedan is pretty much pre-ordained, GM should be coming to a decision on Pontiac along with the rest of it's RWD program later this year.

I was told a year ago, Pontiac had some designs proposed based on Chevy's sedan, so I'm guessing that much like the old B-bodies, the differences between the large Pontiac and Chevy sedans will be minor cosmetics. Nose, tail, & instrament panel differences.

There is a FWD-AWD sedan based on E2 on the boards that seems dedicated to fill the departing W body's void. The question is what will these cars be named, and where will they fall in the lineup.

I'm guessing this will be decided after the RWD line is.

 

Pontiac's lineup should be simple:

Solstice
Vibe
Firebird (based on Camaro but unique looks)
G6
G8 (sedan & coupe (coupe could be called GTO))

Pontiac does not need a Cobalt stable mate, nor does it need any trucks or minivans.

If the GTO comes back, Chevy needs to drop the Monte Carlo. GM only needs one mid-size sport/luxury coupe.

 

so an american M5 beater woul dbe a bad idea?

Or am I wrong thinking the Epsilon was the midsize RWD/AWD platform?

 

Actually, when the VE Commodore comes out later this year, that's what the previously planned G8 would have been...with the prerequisite Poncho grill of course.

As far as the Chevy sedan goes, I'm not quite sure which direction it will take, styling wise. I get the feeling that it won't be quite as expressive as the next gen Malibu though.

 

Take Kappa, stretch it and upgrade the suspension and chassiss to accomodate the extra dessignated seating positions (300lbs). It will be a packaging compromise but feasible. I am not refering to the Torana type of vehicle.

 

First some assumptions that I'd work by:

1) Spending cash to manipulate kappa and Epsilon would defeat the point of being given only those platforms.

2) Saturn is not going to disappear, and thus Pontiac needs to define its models as something distinct and vital relative to Aura, Vue, Sky, and whatever else GM is bequeathing to this unproven, never-profitable Korean wannabe brand (not that I have anything against Saturn ).

3) Pontiac needs to retain its volume. It's too late, by about 80 years, to make Pontiac a niche brand. It is GM's third biggest seller and needs to keep its volume less the dolts in GM management decide Pontiac's not worth pouring more money into.

Based upon the last guidline, I would keep the Delta and Theta rebadges. Let them sell as they may. Employ creative rebates, leasing deals, sexual favors, anything to keep these crusty models selling.

Now, Epsilon. I would make G6 everything it was supposed to be. Throw in the 3.6L or 2.8L turbo V6 cranked up to 300hp with ther option of the 6-speed manual or GM's new 6-speed auto with paddle shifting. AWD would be nice, but budget probably will keep that from happening. Make sure all the little things are considered with suspension and brakes. This sort of attention to detail alloowed the press to praise the Grand Prix GXP in spite of the car's obvious flaws.

Make the interior a bit nicer, but don't break the bank on it. Remember, Saturn is selling the Honda interiors. Pontiac should aim to match Nissan's interiors while more importantly doing whatever is necessary to kick that brand's *** in performance. Pontiac engineers should have a picture of the Altima on their mirrors as if they were Rocky Balboa preparing for a match against Drago. The idea - out handle, out accelerate, out grip, out "driving experience" the Altima. When Car and Driver tests the G6, they should say, "The interior is not class leading, but performance is unmatched in its category."

Styling should be more expressive. Again, Saturn, along with of course Chevy, will have sedans that don't offend a soul. Make the G6 one of those cars who's exterior people either cannot stand or love with a passion.

Solstice - The same sort of theme. It already has a head start. It's beating the Miata. This isn't the car's real enemy though. The Sky - that's right, its platform mate built on the same factory line - is its biggest threat. Again, the answer lies in differentiation. Pontiac must convince the public, and subsequently GM management, that the Solstice is unique and indispensible. Pontiac engineers should already be looking at ways to tweak the Solstice. It should be faster, better handling from one year to the next. Don't ruin its terrific handling character, but don't be afraid to make it a bit edgy. Pontiac should sponser racing with the Solstice and should fight to the death to keep Saturn from doing the same with Sky. Pontiac is the "excitement" brand, they need to defend their turf.

Torrent, G5 - Pontiac should be looking for low key ways to make these models quicker, better driving then the Chevy's. Assume that they will get the same engines as their platform mates. Pontiac needs to add better brakes (I installed bigger rotors on my GP last Thursday - it's not that hard). Suspension tuning needs to be something that actually happens to these cars rather than a vaguery of advertising. Bigger sway bars, more agressive struts, better tires. It's all in GM's parts bin. Grand Prix GXP set the precendent for Pontiac's being able to do this. On this note, consider staggering the tires. This could become a Pontiac engineering trademark along the lines of widetrack.

Finally, advertising. Pontiac is a brand of rebadges, and almost always has been. Was a 1969 GTO really that much faster than Chevelle? Its success will always rest in the efficacy of its advertising. Quit advertising specific models. That's stupid - people don't remember specific model ads because they see about a million of them every time they watch a football game. Market the brand. Market excitement. Pontiac was the first to do this. Now Nissan, Scion, and Mazda do it. Convince people that the Torrent really is faster that the Equinox, just because it's a Pontiac. Some might say people are no longer that niave. I say bullsh*t. People are still buying cigarettes and alcohol, brand name sodas, and for that matter, Honda Civics with huge spoilers on 'em because they think it sets them apart, popularizes them, or masculinizes them. Provide people a bit of an illusion, and their brains and hormones will do the rest.

 

oh, I guess I was thinking Epsilon 2

from what I heard Epsilon 2 will have RWD too.

 

That is interesting... Confirmation?

If true this could open up a large amount of possibilites, but I don't think it is...

 

Nope.

 

I don't know evok, from what I've heard, the packaging compromises on such a 'stretch' would be so severe as to make this a non-product.

 

All engines have direct injection

VIBE: Entry level car at Pontiac. Redesigned and powered by GM's Ecotec.
6 speed manuals/5 speed autos optional on every model. 4 wheel discs standard.

Head to head against the ugly Calibre.

SE: 150hp 2.2L
GT: 185hp 2.4L
Hybrid 2.4L--Saturn Green Line Vue powertrain.
GXP- AWD, Turbo 2.2L 250hp.

G6: Rename Grand Am (it had a decent rep and was a big seller for Pontiac. What idiot changed the name??) 4 dr and 2 dr

Built on the 106" wheelbase Epsilon. 4 wheel disc brakes.
6 speed manuals/6 speed auto on every model

SE: 185hp 2.4L
GT: 220hp 2.8L HF V6
GXP: 280hp AWD (I am no AWD fan but lets see if it sells well)

Solstice: drop the Colrados 5 speed for a close ratio 6 speed. 5 Speed automatic continues.

2.4L 190hp
GXP: 260hp 2.0 Turbo

Add a coupe model.

Bonnevile: 4 door RWD Zeat Platform. 6 speed manual/ 6 speed auto on all models.

GT: 3.6L 280hp V6 AWD optional
GXP: 5.0L Northstar 375hp AWD optional

GT0: 6.2L VVT 420hp V8
7.0 L VVT 495HP V8

If Pontiac is serious about competing with BMW it must have extensive use of
DOHC engines. I left the pushrods in the GTO because, well, its a GTO.

 

Is there anyway to beat the "DOHC is better than pushrod" mentality with product?