Currently a 2009 Focus, 2011 Mustang GT (sold a 2008 GT to buy the 2011) and a 2008 Subaru legacy. In the last decade I have owned many new cars from GM, Ford and Chrysler. The Legacy and a Nissan Titan are the only Japanese I have owned. I could not be happier with Fords quality.

Not to mention I travel heavily for work. Taurus, Edge, Focus, fusion......I spent more time in rental cars then my own.

Enlighten me......why do you ask?

 

I think this was the intended use of this emotioncon.

 

And you won't hear me saying I'm wrong on this one.

General Motors requested $18 billion back in November 2008.

Congress balked. Not once, but twice.

General Motors finally got 4 billion of that at the very end of December 2008 (from the Bush Administration after Congress killed the idea) which turned out to be only days before they would have been forced to cease manufacturing.

General Motors got another 5.4 billion from the Feds in mid January.

General Motors got another 4 billion on February 17th 2009 from the US Treasury.

GM was given till March 30th to come up with a working business plan. They failed. In order to get additional funds to keep operating (and get an additional 60 days to come up with a plan), Rick Wagoner had to resign.

Going into bankruptcy, the Feds put up $361 million to cover some of GM's immediate liabilities that were due.

The Feds also coughed up $24 million to cover warranty work on General Motors cars.

On June 1st, General Motors recieved approval to recieve an additional $15 billion as debtor-in-possession funding to get them through bankruptcy (they had a mere $2 billion cash on hand).

Coming out of bankruptcy, the Federal government bought up parts of General Motors Corperation to form the General Motors Company, getting a 60% stake for just over $50 billion dollars.

By the time the dust settled, GM got:

About $84 billion from the US government.
Over $8 billion from Canada.
GM also recieved money from the EU to save it.


My $100 billion+ estimate was a hair high (it included the total cost of saving it). But putting the price at just $65 billion is subtantially low.


Finally (since I know someone will want to know):

Chrysler got 4.5 billion by Bush to keep operating, $3 billion debtor-in-possession funding, and the Feds put up $6.6 billion coming out of bankruptcy, and own about 9.9% of Chrysler (68% is owned by the UAW retiree medical fund).


One last fun fact.

There were 2 instances where the General Motors Corperation would have shut it's doors without government intervention.

The first would have been effectively New Years Day, January 2009.

The second would have been June 1st, 2009 (on April 22nd, GM announced it would no longer be able to pay it's debts on that date).

There was some extremely silly guy who used to post here that proclaimed that the whole thing was just a game, and that either GM was in no real danger, or that the Feds would have been forced to give GM money regardless. This guy was obviously Rick Wagoner's son because that's what Wagoner believed.

Fact is that if the any one of the principles (ie: the UAW, the bondholders, or the debtors) had not gone along with what was being demanded of them, the Feds would have pulled out and GM would have been toast.

Or owned by China.

 

The arrogance that Wagoner exibited at the end, was pretty much the same arrogance that GM displayed to the bankers that offered them a similar "mortgage" deal, to what Ford had................... at about the same time.

They scoffed that they should be prepared for an economic downturn, as they were, after all, GM.

Then, when things were getting pretty bad, they pretty much demanded that the bankers give them money............... since they were, after all, GM.

We know how that turned out.

I think what bothers me the most, is the absolute and complete fantasyland that these executives lived in. Where they were infallible due to who they were (GM), even when the walls were falling in around them.

Good overview Guy.

 

What's funny is that here we are today, 2 years later, and just last week I still came across someone here on the site on another thread still in denial over how bad a shape GM actually was. Ultimate ironies abound every time someone touts the new Camaro and slams government intervention in GM, still oblivious to the fact that the 1st production Camaro would have never gone down an assembly line without it.

Or the idea that since the government owned GM, instead of actually trying to get taxpayer money back, they'd be producing electric golf cart-like cars made of granola or something. Cars like the ZR1, Z28, and CTSv were deader than Elvis.

Then there's the notion that somehow, GM was in better position than Ford, which in and of itself is enough to have me on the floor rolling as if I just heard a George Carlin or Chris Rock CD. One went bankrupt, went into government recievership and is still to this day hasn't won any quality awards. The other topping the quality charts, has unused lines of credit, has increased it's market value 900% in 2 years (stocks went from $1.75 in January 2009 to about $18 today).

Make no mistake, GM is far better off now than they have been in almost a decade. But GM's biggest enemy has always been it's internal politics and bureaucracy undermining itself. Ultimately to the point of gross denial and arrogance.

But Ford had the same problem once. When Bill Ford finally removed himself from the equasion and hired an outside manufacturing expert to the company (instead of simply a guy who knew how to make money), and backed him and his decisions up 100%, Ford began to change.

I think GM will too.

 

Until I see some stability and competance in the Executive ranks at GM............... I will withhold judgement.

Frankly, they are still flopping around with little clear direction. Add to that, their constant marketing/public miscues (Akerson calling Prius owners geeks, and multiple other public gaffs), and one has to wonder who is running the asylum. Hopefully as Akerson gets his feet under him, there can be some consistant direction for the company.

One thing I think they really need to get on top of, is the quality thing. As perception lags actual quality by so long................ this just has to happen before the company can really advance. Heck, Ford is finally seeing some public response to major quality increases that have happened since the mid 2000's.

Mind you, I am not saying that GM's quality is garbage. What I am saying, is that it is inconsistant, with way too many teething pains with new products.

 

This was more likely to happen than I want to admit. China had check in hand, and probably still does. Like many things these days, I am glad only that we took what I think to be the lesser of two (or more) evils.

 

Jason, Outside of you, I and Gloria, I think the total number of people on this site who understand your point would barely be enough to hold a card game. However, or all scenarios, China buying the scraps of a bankrupt global General Motors corperation is the most probable.

Consider:

1. GM had a presence is just about every market on the planet except India. As owner of GM, China would have an instant access to not only the US market, but Europe, South America, Africa, Australia, Korea, Russia, and other areas I'm missing.

2. GM had advanced technologies from alternate fuels all the way up to the technology developed for the Volt.

3. China would reap a unimaginable public relations coup by saving hundreds of thousands of jobs and effectively resucing the US economy from ruin (the Feds would have had to pay out literally hundreds of billions of taxpayer money that would have essentially made the US government insolvent).

Regardless as to if anyone is pro-government, anti-government, liberal, or conservative, the fact is about as clear as anything in life can be. This is one instance where the US Federal Government did the right thing, in the right way, and got the right result.

We're not driving around in electric golf carts (the Feds even criticized the Volt as not being financially viable), the Feds didn't dictate how GM should be run (not only did they rebuff Germany's efforts to get the Feds to influence GM back when Opel was about to be sold, but the Feds have been far better than individual investors were in making sure GM returns to profitability). At the same time, the freedom loving world didn't collaspse, considering the alternatives, the taxpayer actually made out on the deal (sure your money went to GM and most is being made back, but if nothing happened, your taxes would had to have doubled just to keep pase with the fallout of GM & Chrysler's demise).

Idealogy doesn't pay the bills and is horrible financial advice.

 

Guy I got a pair of jacks, how about you?