Read it and plz post your opinions plz...........

GM CEO Rick Wagoner admitted that the company has pretty much hit the end of their rope on the incentive/rebate death march. What was a brilliant idea immediately after 9/11 has turned into an economic disaster for what's left of the Big Three. GM has kept the factories humming and the dealers happy, but thanks to their incentive-driven marketing campaign, they've established themselves as the discount retailer of the automotive business. MORE.
09 May 03. AutoExtremist.com

 

Well I think everyone knew they wouldn't continue it forever so that is no big surprise. So how exactly is it an economic disaster?

 

If GM is now the Wal-Mart of the Car Industry , where in the heck is my new 2007 Camaro for 400HP v8 and a base sticker price of $17,999.00

 

If GM didn't want to be perceived as a "discount retailer" they should have put more realistic pricing on their vehicles. The MSRP on most every GM vehicle tends to be higher than a comparable Toyota or Honda - let alone Ford or Chrysler. On their own merits, and at full retail, GM cars and trucks are poor values.

 

redzed - Chevy prices are almost always below that of comparable Toyotas and Hondas. Value is a perceived thing, so f you feel Chevy's value isn't up to par with Honda and Toyota, that is fine....but to say Chevys are priced higher is incorrect.

I obviously didn't know off hand (but had a good idea) so I checked the pricing of Impala vs. Accord and Camry, and comparably equipped Impalas are less money. As well, comparably equipped Cavaliers are less than Corollas and about the same as Civics. They might not be as "valuable" to you...but cheaper nonetheless.

Im really awaiting the next generation of GM products to come to market (delta based Cavalier, new Malibu, new Grand Prix, etc.) because I think we're seeing the greatest increases in quality in GM that the company has ever done at one time. Look at Cadillac, the CTS is fantastic. I hope GM keeps up the good work.

-Rich

 

I did figures of my own, an it appears that Chevrolets are dramatically overpriced in terms of MSRP. Just compare a Honda Accord LX V6 5A (MSRP $23,460) to a Chevrolet Impala LS (MSRP $24,870). Even the Malibu LS (MSRP $21,200) doesn't compare favorably to the Accord LX 5A(MSRP $20,460).

I'm not even going to get into a Cavalier vs. Civic/Corolla scenario, which verges on preposterous these days. In perceived quality terms, the Cavalier is really starting to lag behind even the Korean competition - but at least its soon to die at long last.

Thankfully, MSRPs have little to do with final pricing at today's GM. However, if they take up the foolish notion of eliminating discounting, they can count on commercial suicide in current market conditions.

As an aside, the pricing on the CTS is still laughable. A CTS with Stabilitrak will cost you at least $34,645 MSRP, against $35,295 for the BMW 330i. What's worse, a "stripped" CTS has a $2,000 price disadvantage compared to a 325i. Considering that Beemers has massively better resale value (good for lower lease payments) and superior acceleration, somebody must have a screw loose at Cadillac.

 

Good luck finding any BMW 330 for under 40 large. My friend was thinking about getting one until he realized he could get a Corvette for about the same price. About the base CTS vs a 325, with both being priced similar, I'd take the CTS. Also, I don't think the 325 has superior acceleration, the 330-yes, but not the 325.

 

A CTS, pretty decked out, can come in around $35-6k... do the same to a BMW 330 and you are in the $40's.

Thinking CTS is overpriced is pretty short-sighted.

Want a $25-$30k car? But an Impala, Grand Prix, non-top level Bonneville or go somewhere else.

Some people just don't understand that this is the reality of car prices today. Live with it. It's not going to change.

 

I think that's GM's marketing strategy. If someone is appalled by the sticker price on a decently equipped CTS, they can just buy a Pontiac. Brilliant strategy.

The problem I have with that is that I really hate every FWD sedan GM makes, both currently and in the foreseable future. Cadillac is attempting to ignore the competition at BMW and Infiniti, and they must assume that anyone with a "Cadillac mentality" doesn't give a hoot about safety. That's why the hide Stabilitrak in a $4,000 pack of crap when everone else in the sub-luxury category throws stability control in for free. With that sort of marketing, Cadillac is fully ready to compete with the likes of the Nissan Maxima, not the G35 or any other premium performance sedans.

The outlook isn't any better for the "non-prestige" GM brands. Aside from the rebates, they have few advantages in competing against imported cars. I think the whole discounting debate brings into question the soundness of GM's new "car-oriented" development priorities. The 70% allocation to trucks made them more "profitable" than the other domestic manufacturers, but is the new 70% allocation in cars going to be a disaster? Yes, if GM doesn't change their pricing.

To any impartial observer, GM is in a position in which it needs to rebuild the image and integrity of its automotive line-up. This means that they can't expect to start at the top rung of pricing.

All of this is coming from somebody who is a satisfied GM owner. My Z28 never had to have any warranty related service, and had zero defects from the factory. Still, if GM is going to get my next purchase, the vehicle will have to be cheaper and better than its import-brand competition.

 

How many other RWD luxury sedans are out there for under $30k... and under $35k well equipped? Heck, ignore the RWD, and how many luxury sedan are out there with under $30k, and under $35k well equipped? Not a whole heck of a lot!

Now figure in the Cadillac is selling a lot more than even they thought they would, and the formula must be working out pretty good.

 

Actually, in recent reviews, stabilitrak has been coming out on top of other luxury brand traction control systems like BMW and Mercedes. It has been getting very high marks.

 

There are more sub-$30k RWD "luxury" sedans than you might think (BMW 325i, Infinit G35 and Mercedes C230K sedan), and more on the way (BMW 1-series). In any case, with the recent MSRP increases, the CTS isn't under $30k anymore.

Interestingly, when the CTS was introduced, the pricing closely matched the 1996 Cadillac Catera. If that sounds impressive, it isn't. The current 2003 BMW 325i actually beats the pricing of the 1992 325i.

 

Unfortunately, Stabilitrak only works if GM actually puts it on a car.
GM has taken the attitude that Stabilitrak is "rare and precious," just at a time when other manufacturers are starting to offer equivilent systems as standard equipment. Today, Stabilitrak is hidden in bundled option package ($4,000! on the CTS), or limited to a few top-end models (Bonneville SSEi, LeSabre Limited). Even more confusingly, you can get it on the Tahoe and Suburban as a $750 option, but only on 4wd model with no limited slip differential. Oh, and lose the two-speed transfer case, and forget it if you're buying a 2500 Suburban. Toyota figured out how to put a equivilent system on every one of their traditional SUVs, and its free. Go figure.

I guess the message is that you aren't willing to pony-up upwards of $35-55k for a car, GM doesn't figure you're smart enough to care about safety.

 

Base price, yes, there are a few that you can get for $29,999 (CTS was that, but is now $30,595 or so I believe) ... but how many people buy these cars as base models anyway? Most pack at least a few options on, whether they are buying the CTS, the Bimmer, or whatever.

Anyway, my point was that CTS is priced right in line with (not necessarily cheaper than) the cars they want it to compete with.... and it is doing quite well...

 

I do agree with this.

I think StabiliTrak is a very valubale feature, and it you shouldn't be forced into the $4000 Luxury Sport package to get it. It should be available on it's own. (Though, I , personally, would opt for the Luxury Sport if I were buying a non-V-Series CTS anyway)

I wonder how much it actually costs GM to include StabiliTrak on a car... If your $750 number on the Tahoe is correct, then it can't be too much.