Originally Posted by Red Planet

this is a very competitive business. If GM wanted pictures out there, they would have put 'em out there. Quite frankly, it concerns me greatly as to how much information...and DIS-information is out there.....

I guess my advice to anyone posting links is this: How would you feel if someone posted your credit card number? Would you NOT be infuriated if someone else posted that link on their site? Look....don't use righteous indignation when you're caught. You KNOW the pics were not meant to be out in the public domain.....

That's it...I'm done. It's been great.

Originally Posted by JasonD

It seems that everyone is racing to be the first to have some pictures they shouldn't or to know something that someone else doesn't and to be able to boast that they brought it into the public first...even when they know they are not supposed to.

Unfortunately, in the real world, this does much more harm than good. We just lost a very influential part of this forum. For how long, we are not sure but this Z06 image leak issue is more than likly going to set a precidence on how much GM employees can interact with sites like this one in the future.

I can't honestly say I didn't see this coming a long time ago. Scott was potentially risking his career just by being here in the first place to help us out. I can only hope that when things cool down he will have the choice to come back in the future.

Originally Posted by Red Planet

this is a very competitive business. If GM wanted pictures out there, they would have put 'em out there. Quite frankly, it concerns me greatly as to how much information...and DIS-information is out there.....

I guess my advice to anyone posting links is this: How would you feel if someone posted your credit card number? Would you NOT be infuriated if someone else posted that link on their site? Look....don't use righteous indignation when you're caught. You KNOW the pics were not meant to be out in the public domain.....

That's it...I'm done. It's been great.

Originally Posted by guionM

All right now everyone. What happened & what did I miss?? :confused:

Originally Posted by Doug Harden

I side with GM on this one.....

[rant on] What we're talking about is similar to the fight over illegal downloading of songs and software.

First and foremost:...those pictures ARE GM's property.

Second: They were given to people with the implicit directive that they were under embargo until a certian date.

Third: Whomever broke that embargo broke the law.

Fourth: Just because you "found" something on the internet does not give you the right to distribute it at will. ESPECIALLY when GM themselves tells you to cease and disist.

Fifth: Arguing the minutia of "GM should have done this or that to protect the pictures better"....ignores the FACT the GM is the owner and has EXCLUSIVE rights as to how and where these pictures are distributed.

Sixth: It DOES cost GM a TON of money. Look at the problems GM is having moving the last of the C5's...and now the '04 GTO's. Millions in incentives and lost sales. Now, I'm not saying these two examples are a result of this kind of theft, but to say that something that would cause a loss of current model sales doesn't cost money is shortsighted at best. The new Z06 WILL affect sales of current models.

Seventh: Not only that, but it gives the competition time to offset any market or performance advantage GM was trying to build.

Eighth: This is industrial espionage pure and simple. Theft of insider secrets and information about future models is illegal.

Ninth: It is widely known that FORD themselves leaked the Mustang photos...that why they didn't "go after" anyone...

Finally: Why the HELL are people blaming the VICTIM here?!?! GM's trust and property were VIOLATED and all I hear are people blaming GM for their reaction and telling them that they were to blame. WTF?!? If you want to do business with GM...as a news reporting agency...then KEEP YOUR WORD and don't steal!

I get so sick and tired of the selfish people who use the internet to steal.....and then blame the victim.....

[/rant off]

Be careful what you ask for...you might just get it......

Originally Posted by PacerX

Honestly, the picture should have had a copyright watermark.

If GM were to do this, and it said something along the lines of:

"Copyright 2004, General Motors Corporation, not for distribution prior to 31 December, 2004"

It would sure help. Some folks are going to ignore the watermark and distribute it anyway. Others are just doing it inadvertantly - they were'nt trying to hurt anyone or anything and wouldn't know there was an embargo.

Also, GM plays this game from both ends. Information is intentionally "slipped" at times to start a buzz about a product that's coming. It's hard to listen to the complaining when at the same time GM is pusing things around the other way.

Finally, if you don't want the picture distributed, don't make it available. I can keep folks from getting at sensitive information on my computer at home, GM and it's IT department should be able to do the same thing.

In the end, watermarking is easy. Just watermark the stuff and tighten up the security.

Originally Posted by Doug Harden

I kinda' miss the good old days when you knew to be down at the dealership in October to see the new models......

Originally Posted by Doug Harden

Exactly....

In Scott's defense....I can honestly say that, even in "private" conversations he never violated his employer's trust......something unique in today's world. :bow:

Originally Posted by Doug Harden

(10-point rant)

Originally Posted by jrp4uc

This should not be this big of deal. I am all for respecting copyrighted material, but as others indicated, this had no such warnings or "release to public date." If my understanding is correct, GM itself posted it in the public section of their media site by mistake. And we are talking about a photo which most believed to be a non-GM produced photochop to begin with.

The automotive industry should be familiar with the arena of protecting their products from "spy photographers" and certainly information security within their own organization. If they were concerned with a two-month early photo hurting sales or giving competitors an advantage, perhaps they should have taken better care to ensure it was properly secured on their websites. Is the image really that much of a surprise to impact sales anyways? If you're buying a Corvette and read the monthly magazines, they had already described the car in print (bigger engine, fender flares, etc). This was not going to sway someone from buying an '04 if they weren't going to already.

The fact is, if we can stumble across something like this from our respective fan sites, Ford and other GM competitors on a mission for such information can surely get access to it much sooner and without our help. If GM has a problem with internal security of such information, that should be dealt with. If media are violating release dates of information, they should be dealt with individually and have access revoked. But to make regular site visiters feel like criminals for clicking on a thread and viewing an image, that type of public relations seems more likely to detract from sales than a premature photo.