Caps94ZODG

Lets face it Caddy turned the American luxury name from goofy to glamor in a few years..it was blue hairs and land yhats (sp)

Now it is blowing the competion away with its cars trucks and performance devision the V series..

a competent roadster XLR, class leading mid level SRX, a mighty SUV Escalade and a Hot rod 4 door CTS-V are making Caddy trendy like no one would think..and comming out with a STS soon this brand is on rival with the world again.


NOW

Look at Lincoln...not much to say...even with it paired with Mercury not much fire in that pot..

what I would say do what Caddy started off with and what D/C is doing with the 300C hemi...They are taking what American styling is..BIG BOLD in your face and away from "eurostyling" separating it and making a statement and paying off..
The 300C and theCaddy cars are what people want in an AMERICAN LUXURY car and the look of them shows it..Lincoln showed us this a few years ago..why should they not run with it instead of giving us a come late to the party Linconizes F-150? the blackwood though a good looking truck just didnt fly..

Now if Lincoln did the Aviator like this it would sell, something not as edgy as caddy SRX but still bold and American

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0



XLR competition, not as bold but more refined and elegant.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0

the rearend it grew on me its bold it big its menacing like a big bad licoln should have for a presence

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0

a STS rival that could actually rival the STS with style and performance
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=15872&pg=2

http://speed.supercars.net/IMG?viewP...ntal%20Concept


http://speed.supercars.net/IMG?viewP...ntal%20Concept

CTS fighter

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0
http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0
http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0

all these cars lincoln has to seriously start producing in if not actual make them..I know they are concepts but these would be actual rivals to what Caddy has.

what do you guys think? Would love to see these rolling around the streets of America..and make it exciting also any word on if any of these would make it to market?

Stealth 86 LSC

the Zephyr is going into production, front/all wheel drive, based off of the mazda 6 platform
The Continental supposedly shows a lot of clues as to what the revamped LS will look like
The Mark X concept is basically a reskinned thunderbird down to the 285 hp 3.9 v8 (and i still like the mk9 better)
The aviator, its taking some getting used to, but that exact vehicle is possible, same goes for the lincoln mark LT(re badged and niced up new F150, sans the wood bed)

RiceEating5.0

They really won't be upto par with caddy without a HUGE investment from Ford. It'll have to wait till they're on solid financial standing before could pull something like Caddy off. Stuff/changes you mentioned would be an excellent start for Lincoln.

Cadillac has done some amazing stuff.

Big Als Z

Nah, Ford will keep pumping them full of rebadges. But hey, Ford makes a Mustang, so who cares about the rest of Ford.

Caps94ZODG

I was thinking if you saw a 300C a new STS and something like a Lincoln Sentinel

http://www.michiganlcoc.org/gallery/...entinel-1.html

the sentinel styling is a little older now but you know what I am getting at, a bold style that says AMERICAN Luxury..

those 3 cars would be a huge impact on the road

Stealth 86 LSC

meh, the sentinal is a little too sharp edged (quite literally, looks like itll slice yur leg off if it hits ya) I think the Continental Concept would be better suited for a big bold badass american luxo sedan

Z284ever

Lincoln is not Caddy. Caddy is moving up. Buick is moving to the spot that Cadillac once held....and Lincoln competes in.

Lincoln, on the other hand, won't move up....lest it step on the toes of PAG.

GM has it's strategy for Cadillac and Ford has it's strategy Lincoln.

Caps94ZODG

Well is the 300C a competitor to the CTS no matter what anyone says, it is a competator and Chrysler is not compared to Caddy anymore...

what I am saying is its not about competing its about style and image.. Lincoln still has the blue hair, livery service image...if to get out of it they should do a D/C thing and produce something like the 300C.

they dont have to maove upscale to make a nice looking car or stunning

guionM

Z284ever hit it on the head. The mindset between Cadillac & Lincoln is completely different with very different goals.

Cadillac is getting back to it's early glory days when it was on par with Rolls Royce & Dusenburg as well as other world renouned cars. Cadillac will soon go head to head with not only BMW, but also Mercedes, Maybach, Rolls, and perhaps Bentley as well. There won't be a quarter mill Cadillac, but Cadillac will offer the same quality, performance, & refinement as anyone else but at a lower price.


Lincoln, on the other hand, is focusing on "American Luxury" (their words, not mine). Back in Jac Nasser's days, he was moving Lincoln to be a world renouned brand. The LS and the cars spawned off that chassis were to form the basis of that. But when Ford went south over their Firestone recall among other things, Nasser was moved out, and Lincoln's plans were gutted. Lincoln had a multiple billions set aside for their transformation, most of which would be hitting the streets about now. Instead, they now have budgets that basically fund nothing more than redesigned Fords.

Making a world renouned brand takes tons of cash, even with a world renouned reputation (all Luxury brands are now owned by larger "volume" producers). When Ford had their cash crunch, they didn't see the point in dumping GNP amounts of money turning Lincoln into something that Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo (which they own) already was.

Ford already has top brands beyond Lincoln. GM's top brand worldwide, on the other hand, is Cadillac. GM is spending the money to make it thier flagship, not just here in the US, but the world.

Though I'd rather see Lincoln compete with Cadillac at all levels, Ford & GM are actually making good business sense on this. GM is turning Cadillac into a premium vehicle line, which they don't currently have, while Ford is utilizing the premium vehicles they already have, and instead of creating yet another, they are keeping Lincoln a "Luxury" version of Ford, and putting the savings where it's going to do the most good.

Caps94ZODG

thats what I am saying..the 300C is not supposed to be competing in the "world" market of the CTS and the new STS comming out but it is..thats what I am saying..why cant Lincoln be able to make a car like the 300C, not to move the brand upscale but just one car like the 300C, make it the flagship of Lincoln. So that it can go head to head against the CTS and 300C..

guionM

Actually, Lincoln beat GM with the Lincoln LS. GM's response at the time was the Catera, which the Lincoln LS made short work of.

If you are talking about a CTSv competitor, then Lincoln (under Jac Nasser) was going to beat Cadillac yet again with a McLaren prepared Lincoln LS which would have beat CTSv to market.

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national..._03_27_10.tmpl

http://wwwedmonds.com/news/autoshows...6/page005.html

Needless to say, the whole project was axed, and McLaren ended up using the parts developed for the car as an aftermarket upgrade.


Lincoln will have an SVT in the future now that it's role has been expanded from exclusively working on Fords.

Caps94ZODG

I remember that..and remebr that it got cancelled..was hoping it would of been part of the lineup like the V series. but I guess not..is the LS a competitor to CTS?? I dont think so...Lincoln isnt selling it like it should be...its a great car and should be marketed as such..I mean how well is it selling compared to the CTS?? I see more CTS's than LS around...

Caps94ZODG

and think about it the LS was the launching pad to what the CTS was to Caddy..but the plug got pulled..imagine that..we could of seen a new american luxury battle...
now can I ask you were does the 300C fit into all this..and if what does that mean to Lincoln..being one car in a car co for entry level luxury, and Lincoln at mid level luxury why not have a hot rod lincoln that competes with the CTS and the 300C something like the McLaren LS...Ford should have something out soon from SVT to compete or it will be a short race and loosing ground to D/C.

Stealth 86 LSC

heyyy, i know its not gonna happen, but would this not be an interesting face off? a CTS-v, and a SVT tuned LS with the SC 4.6 under the hood and a 6 speed....that might be kinda friggin awesome

guionM

Being that the CTS isn't sold greatly beyond the US, I still consider it a US market car (though that can easily change in the near future). Lincoln LS started this market segment for US made cars, so it most certainly belongs here. Chrysler's 300 also fits the bill (and is about the same size), so it most certainly belongs here.

Lincoln seems to be drifting back towards the older folks, and taking the LS with it. Despite having more performance than ever, the LS seems less sporting than when it 1st came out. Also, the Lincoln LS V8 is a fantastic $30,000 sports sedan. However, you can't get a new V8 LS for under $40,000.

Cadillac, like BMW, seem to be cultivating a group who will buy more on name than on what you get for the money. The CTS is a really good car. But is a tuned suspension, a pushrod V8, and a 6 speed really worth $10,000 over a loaded V6 CTS or $20,000 over a base one?? Saturn's Ion Redline is tuned at Nurburgring. GTO has an V8, 6 speed & independent suspension. Neither one of those costs $50,000.

Chrysler (like Lincoln) makes no pretentions of being a Mercedes or BMW competitor. Yet, the 300 (especially the C) seems determined to knock off it's American competitors. If you pit ONLY the 300C against the CTS & LS lines, it's no contest in sales, performance & handling, what you get for the money, or even in percieved quality. The fit & finish of even the base 300 seems on par with the LS & the CTS.


So it seems you have 2 unabashed American brands that are at opposite ends and 1 wandering off on it's own.

The LS is charging alot for a little, the 300 is charging a little for alot, and the CTS, while a great value in base form, is far less of a value in $41,000 "Luxury Sport" form. Even worse is charging $50,000 for a V8 & handling package (alone enough to put it in another world entirely) where performance shock adsorbers still cost an additional $1,200+. That's b*lls.


300C vs CTSv vs a DOHC 4.6 LS?

I can see this happening within a couple of years, actually.