Lexus faces lawsuit over faulty airbag switches
08-02-2007, 05:15 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: O-Town
Posts: 1,817
Lexus faces lawsuit over faulty airbag switches
Autoblog.com
The suit goes on to explain that the defective vehicles are fitted with a weight sensor that gauges the weight of the person in the front passenger seat, but that these sensors have been found to be faulty.
One representative claims that he tested multiple ES350 vehicles and found them to be defective, as did other customers from across the country. Worse, it claims Toyota was warned about these issues and failed to correct them. The owners want Toyota to recall and repurchase all ES350s, refunds for those that leased the cars, each car to be refitted with a working airbag system, and compensation for any loss of value and costs owners incurred during this process. We'll be watching this one closely.
One representative claims that he tested multiple ES350 vehicles and found them to be defective, as did other customers from across the country. Worse, it claims Toyota was warned about these issues and failed to correct them. The owners want Toyota to recall and repurchase all ES350s, refunds for those that leased the cars, each car to be refitted with a working airbag system, and compensation for any loss of value and costs owners incurred during this process. We'll be watching this one closely.
08-02-2007, 08:26 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,749
Originally Posted by Autoblog.com
We'll be watching this one closely.
If this was Ford or GM this would be on the 5 oclock news. Yes it would. Will be fun to see if it gets mentioned on the news at all this Friday or weekend.
I am betting it will not...
08-02-2007, 10:22 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: O-Town
Posts: 1,817
Most of the times I would usually disagree with statements like this because when imports get something like this going, there are usually such low numbers of vehicles involved that its not worth mentioning. Although, in this case I'm willing to bet that nobody will ever hear of this again. Just like I bet you would be hard pressed to find anyone that knew anything about the lawsuit over the sludge problems in Toyota motors.
08-03-2007, 11:59 AM
#5
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,943
This smells very fishy to me
If the evidence is that strong as these lawyers contend, why is there no recall but instead, only a lawsuit; NHTSA usually doesn’t need a whole lot of prodding to order a recall; especially when their sacred cow air-bags are involved?
My Basset Hound sometimes turns on the sensor in my 350 and sometimes doesn’t which could obviously endanger her life and cause me tremendous anguish; maybe I should sue for a million or two!
If the evidence is that strong as these lawyers contend, why is there no recall but instead, only a lawsuit; NHTSA usually doesn’t need a whole lot of prodding to order a recall; especially when their sacred cow air-bags are involved?
My Basset Hound sometimes turns on the sensor in my 350 and sometimes doesn’t which could obviously endanger her life and cause me tremendous anguish; maybe I should sue for a million or two!
08-03-2007, 02:08 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,338
"Faulty" is the term the law firm is using, not any government agency - that right there should tell you something already. I've read that this law firm has a habit of trying to make a huge stink to various car companies about things that are really mostly subjective about the intentional design of the car, and hoping they'll get paid off to shut up.
I mean look at the terms that firm is demanding - a buy-back of every ES350 ever sold to date.
There aren't a whole lot of details yet but what I have read about this already is that the sensors in the ES will disable the airbags of the weight of the passenger is under about 80 pounds or is slouching.
I believe my Audi's manual says it disables the airbag at 60 pounds, and I've also noticed if the person is slouching badly enough that it will disable the airbag as well.
I mean look at the terms that firm is demanding - a buy-back of every ES350 ever sold to date.
There aren't a whole lot of details yet but what I have read about this already is that the sensors in the ES will disable the airbags of the weight of the passenger is under about 80 pounds or is slouching.
I believe my Audi's manual says it disables the airbag at 60 pounds, and I've also noticed if the person is slouching badly enough that it will disable the airbag as well.
08-03-2007, 03:06 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Yadkinville, NC USA
Posts: 3,180
Most of the times I would usually disagree with statements like this because when imports get something like this going, there are usually such low numbers of vehicles involved that its not worth mentioning. Although, in this case I'm willing to bet that nobody will ever hear of this again. Just like I bet you would be hard pressed to find anyone that knew anything about the lawsuit over the sludge problems in Toyota motors.
Ford and GM have both had voluntary recalls in the last few years to fix issues they simply need to fix that never resulted in an injury, much less a fatality, yet American companies make crap, and imports are the best.
The control arms on the Ford GT - never a one failed, but a crack was spotted in one so they were ALL replaced - voluntarilly.
The front floor mat in the '03/'04 Cobra would occasionally slide forward and cause the gas, brake, or clutch pedal to not fully compress, so Ford issued a recall and installed clips to prevent the mat from moving - voluntarilly.
Toyotas kill people, and they turn their back and say it is "mechanics not adjusting the system correctly". OK - gotcha.... these would be the mechanics that YOU trained, and some of the cars have never been touched by a mechanic anyways... ummm, yeah... RIGHT.
You guys know where I stand.
Just for your reference...
go to NHTSA website and look-up ODI report # 10171110...
Make : TOYOTA Model : CAMRY Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 2
ODI ID Number : 10171110 Number of Deaths: 1
Date of Failure: March 14, 2004
VIN : Not Available
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
Summary:
DIFFICULTY SHIFTING FROM PARK TO REVERSE, THEN UPON SHIFTING INTO DRIVE THE CAR ACCELERATED UNCONTROLLABLY, WOULD NOT STOP, COLLIDED WITH A MOBILE HOME, AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY, RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF ONE PASSENGER AND INJURY OF DRIVER *LA SEE ALSO VOQ 10171110. *DSY. "
Or maybe this one... ODI report # 10147312...
Make : LEXUS Model : ES 330 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 6
ODI ID Number : 10147312 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: December 23, 2005
VIN : JTHBA30G340...
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
THE ACCELERATOR IN MY 2004 LEXUS ES 330 STUCK IN A CROWDED PARKING LOT AND CAUSED A COLLISION. *NM
There's 1 death and 7 injuries in 2 reports, both due to the same problem...
car accelerates uncontrollably and without accelerator being depressed.
There must be thousands of complaints about the DBW system in numerous Toyotas in the early to mid 2000's, but they never did anything about it.
Even the dealerships acknowledged the problems with brand new cars - to no avail.
THIS SUX.
08-03-2007, 04:00 PM
#8
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,943
NHTSA has never been much of a friend to the auto industry (regardless of nameplate) and have never seemed shy about using their administrative powers freely.
08-03-2007, 04:34 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,338
I'm just asking because I don't know, honestly, but I would have to assume there are unintended acceleration issues reported for most high volume production vehicles simply due to people either not realizing that they had their foot on both the gas instead of the brake or the gas and brake pedal at the same time (only to panic and press harder... this has happened to me actually, thankfully I had plenty of stopping room at the time), or possibly just using the excuse to place blame against their mistake and try to avoid a potential lawsuit or criminal charges against them.
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
08-03-2007, 04:35 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 440
Yea. Never shy to try an tear down the American auto industry. I'd be willing to bet politics plays a big part in this. How come some of these foreign countries seem to get a pass whereas American company execs are called to testify before Congress. You want to talk failures, Just wait until China starts selling cars here in about 2 yrs.
Last edited by joe-96z1le; 08-03-2007 at 04:41 PM.
08-03-2007, 04:36 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,173
I'm just asking because I don't know, honestly, but I would have to assume there are unintended acceleration issues reported for most high volume production vehicles simply due to people either not realizing that they had their foot on both the gas instead of the brake or the gas and brake pedal at the same time (only to panic and press harder... this has happened to me actually, thankfully I had plenty of stopping room at the time), or possibly just using the excuse to place blame against their mistake and try to avoid a potential lawsuit or criminal charges against them.
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
08-04-2007, 03:29 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: O-Town
Posts: 1,817
Are you aware that Toyota (and Lexus) have had FATALITIES associated with their drive-by-wire engine control system, NHTSA reports on the common failures, and yet they still deny there is a problem and refuse to have a recall?
Ford and GM have both had voluntary recalls in the last few years to fix issues they simply need to fix that never resulted in an injury, much less a fatality, yet American companies make crap, and imports are the best.
The control arms on the Ford GT - never a one failed, but a crack was spotted in one so they were ALL replaced - voluntarilly.
The front floor mat in the '03/'04 Cobra would occasionally slide forward and cause the gas, brake, or clutch pedal to not fully compress, so Ford issued a recall and installed clips to prevent the mat from moving - voluntarilly.
Toyotas kill people, and they turn their back and say it is "mechanics not adjusting the system correctly". OK - gotcha.... these would be the mechanics that YOU trained, and some of the cars have never been touched by a mechanic anyways... ummm, yeah... RIGHT.
You guys know where I stand.
Just for your reference...
go to NHTSA website and look-up ODI report # 10171110...
Make : TOYOTA Model : CAMRY Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 2
ODI ID Number : 10171110 Number of Deaths: 1
Date of Failure: March 14, 2004
VIN : Not Available
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
Summary:
DIFFICULTY SHIFTING FROM PARK TO REVERSE, THEN UPON SHIFTING INTO DRIVE THE CAR ACCELERATED UNCONTROLLABLY, WOULD NOT STOP, COLLIDED WITH A MOBILE HOME, AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY, RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF ONE PASSENGER AND INJURY OF DRIVER *LA SEE ALSO VOQ 10171110. *DSY. "
Or maybe this one... ODI report # 10147312...
Make : LEXUS Model : ES 330 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 6
ODI ID Number : 10147312 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: December 23, 2005
VIN : JTHBA30G340...
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
THE ACCELERATOR IN MY 2004 LEXUS ES 330 STUCK IN A CROWDED PARKING LOT AND CAUSED A COLLISION. *NM
There's 1 death and 7 injuries in 2 reports, both due to the same problem...
car accelerates uncontrollably and without accelerator being depressed.
There must be thousands of complaints about the DBW system in numerous Toyotas in the early to mid 2000's, but they never did anything about it.
Even the dealerships acknowledged the problems with brand new cars - to no avail.
THIS SUX.
Ford and GM have both had voluntary recalls in the last few years to fix issues they simply need to fix that never resulted in an injury, much less a fatality, yet American companies make crap, and imports are the best.
The control arms on the Ford GT - never a one failed, but a crack was spotted in one so they were ALL replaced - voluntarilly.
The front floor mat in the '03/'04 Cobra would occasionally slide forward and cause the gas, brake, or clutch pedal to not fully compress, so Ford issued a recall and installed clips to prevent the mat from moving - voluntarilly.
Toyotas kill people, and they turn their back and say it is "mechanics not adjusting the system correctly". OK - gotcha.... these would be the mechanics that YOU trained, and some of the cars have never been touched by a mechanic anyways... ummm, yeah... RIGHT.
You guys know where I stand.
Just for your reference...
go to NHTSA website and look-up ODI report # 10171110...
Make : TOYOTA Model : CAMRY Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 2
ODI ID Number : 10171110 Number of Deaths: 1
Date of Failure: March 14, 2004
VIN : Not Available
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
Summary:
DIFFICULTY SHIFTING FROM PARK TO REVERSE, THEN UPON SHIFTING INTO DRIVE THE CAR ACCELERATED UNCONTROLLABLY, WOULD NOT STOP, COLLIDED WITH A MOBILE HOME, AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY, RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF ONE PASSENGER AND INJURY OF DRIVER *LA SEE ALSO VOQ 10171110. *DSY. "
Or maybe this one... ODI report # 10147312...
Make : LEXUS Model : ES 330 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 6
ODI ID Number : 10147312 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: December 23, 2005
VIN : JTHBA30G340...
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
THE ACCELERATOR IN MY 2004 LEXUS ES 330 STUCK IN A CROWDED PARKING LOT AND CAUSED A COLLISION. *NM
There's 1 death and 7 injuries in 2 reports, both due to the same problem...
car accelerates uncontrollably and without accelerator being depressed.
There must be thousands of complaints about the DBW system in numerous Toyotas in the early to mid 2000's, but they never did anything about it.
Even the dealerships acknowledged the problems with brand new cars - to no avail.
THIS SUX.
When people on here say that GM needs to earn consumers trust back, I don't think it will be that much longer until Toyota drives the consumer back to GM. If these issues are real, not saying they aren't, and a large group of people feel they are being done wrong it is just a matter of time before Toyota will be facing what GM is trying to get over right now.
08-04-2007, 08:52 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Yadkinville, NC USA
Posts: 3,180
Toyota deciding not to do a voluntary recall is certainly fertile ground for distain but if this issue is that important/that much of a safety issue (not saying it isn’t; just asking a question); NHTSA certainly has the power to order a recall. So, I think it reasonable to ask why they haven’t done so?
NHTSA has never been much of a friend to the auto industry (regardless of nameplate) and have never seemed shy about using their administrative powers freely.
NHTSA has never been much of a friend to the auto industry (regardless of nameplate) and have never seemed shy about using their administrative powers freely.
Toyota does not CARE. They are turning into a money-making machine that has no heart. They will not make a recall unless TOLD or FORCED to.
THAT is one of my problems with their monarchy over the last decade or so.
When Ford and GM are doing voluntary recalls out of good faith and conscience - they get bashed in the media and come-off as making ****, when in reality their stuff is no worse than Toyota, but Toyota refuses to issue recalls so they stay out of the news and look like the Golden Child.
That is NOT equal billings, and the American companies are getting the short-end of the stick for standing behind their product due to images that the press spins onto them. And that SUX IMO.
08-04-2007, 09:01 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Yadkinville, NC USA
Posts: 3,180
I'm just asking because I don't know, honestly, but I would have to assume there are unintended acceleration issues reported for most high volume production vehicles simply due to people either not realizing that they had their foot on both the gas instead of the brake or the gas and brake pedal at the same time (only to panic and press harder... this has happened to me actually, thankfully I had plenty of stopping room at the time), or possibly just using the excuse to place blame against their mistake and try to avoid a potential lawsuit or criminal charges against them.
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
I guess I'd assume you'd hear of at least a few claims like this for any higher production vehicle... it's when you hear far more than normal OR when you actually discover a defect that you know you should have a recall...
There's thousands of them across the entire Toyota and Lexus brands and models. Some without a person even in the car, so there's NO WAY they had their foot on the pedal unknowingly. Service techs have them on the lift and it happens. Service techs and dealerships have reported this to Toyota and been blown off. The biggest common thread between them seems to be an association with shifting from reverse to drive or the other way around, but it sometimes happens while in neutral. To me, it's pretty obvious that there is a problem with signal or continuity in the DBW system that controls the throttle body and fuel delivery - but I'm just a ding-dong engineer.
There are a few documents available from media sites about these issues that involve occupant's descriptions, but they are harder to find (for some mysterious reason
). IT"S BIG. It's not a small thing.
As for having your foot on the wrong pedal - I'm sure it does happen, but in all honesty I think there's enough of a trend here to see that it's not always the case. People don't typically slam the gas to the floor (a.k.a. a WOT signal to the OBD box) immediately after selecting a gear in an automatic tranny.
Not flaming or bashing your point in any way - it's valid and I acknowledge that. But I am challenging you to do some internet investigation and see what you find.
08-04-2007, 09:25 AM
#15
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,943
Toyota not wanting to do a voluntary recall is EXACTLY my point - not a point of disdain.
Toyota does not CARE. They are turning into a money-making machine that has no heart. They will not make a recall unless TOLD or FORCED to.
THAT is one of my problems with their monarchy over the last decade or so.
When Ford and GM are doing voluntary recalls out of good faith and conscience - they get bashed in the media and come-off as making ****, when in reality their stuff is no worse than Toyota, but Toyota refuses to issue recalls so they stay out of the news and look like the Golden Child.
That is NOT equal billings, and the American companies are getting the short-end of the stick for standing behind their product due to images that the press spins onto them. And that SUX IMO.
Toyota does not CARE. They are turning into a money-making machine that has no heart. They will not make a recall unless TOLD or FORCED to.
THAT is one of my problems with their monarchy over the last decade or so.
When Ford and GM are doing voluntary recalls out of good faith and conscience - they get bashed in the media and come-off as making ****, when in reality their stuff is no worse than Toyota, but Toyota refuses to issue recalls so they stay out of the news and look like the Golden Child.
That is NOT equal billings, and the American companies are getting the short-end of the stick for standing behind their product due to images that the press spins onto them. And that SUX IMO.
Anyway, you didn’t really address my question
why hasn't NHTSA already gotten involved?If the evidence supporting a real defect in design/materials, etc is as strong as suggested, then I have to believe the NHTSA will (or already would have) step in – despite feelings to the contrary, NHTSA has never been shy about flexing their muscle and I really don’t think they give a rat’s **s about what nameplate is on the car.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; 08-04-2007 at 09:28 AM.