Or, you could make this advantageous and develop a hot coupe from Delta II and give it to Pontiac. You could literally start building the division from the ground up again as a performance division.

I think the Astra should die since it's 1) Old 2) ****ty relative to it's price and 3) doesn't/can't sell worth a damn.

G6 needs to be replaced by an Alpha based car. Impala needs to move up where it's supposed to be. Lacrosse needs to move upmarket to give the Aura room to breath.

1) The G6 has a replacement (MCE) on the way 2) Alpha was supposed to replace G6 until GME got invovled. 3) GME wants Pontiac dead, so they'll never get the Opel. GME wants Satrun to replace Pontiac, despite the fact that Saturn 1) Is falling on its face in the market with all new product and 2) Still can't sell the numbers Pontiac can while Pontiac has transitioned its ENTIRE line up, has blatant outdated cars and chevy rebadges and is losing share/downsizing.

STS will die and be replaced by CTS, as it should. DTS needs to be replaced with a TRUE 7 series competitor. Lucerne needs to capture DTS buyers on Zeta (Or eps II if certain people get their way and Zeta is killed) G8 needs to remain and be expanded with an emphasis on V6 powertrains for volume. (V8s would still be the top option) This is especially true now that the Zeta Impala is dead and the Lucerne might stay FWD. That's A LOT of room that the G8 can cash in on.

The Torrent needs to go to GMC, as is planned. The Vue needs to stay at Saturn, except it needs to be lighter and cheaper.

The Outlook is my favorite Lambda, but I agree that it needs to go. Acadia is the best selling Lambda.. Always has been. Enclave is Buicks means of survival. Enclave should be kept, Acadia should be monitored to see how Traverse affects it. If Traverse pulls it sales, then kill it. If not, then leave it.

What will be interesting is the new Cadillac Lambda and how it will fit in (rolls eyes, I know, right?)

I agree 110%!

The H2 should either be re-engineered asd a masterpiece of efficiency or it should be killed in favor of the HX and H3.

1 of 2 things.

1) Leave the Sky as long as the demographics are different. 2) If the demographics cross over, kill the Sky and give saturn a smaller sporty car. Make the next Solstice more "Sky-like"

 

I agree...

Or if the segment pulls enough volume to support different models.

Like mid-size sedans. GM should have 2 or 3 entries in that segment IMO, to better cater to individual needs of certain segments of customers in the segment.

GM could REALLY use its divisions to its advantage if they would just grasp the concept of focusing them to cater to certain niches and segments of the market.

It basically means that GM could better tailor or customize its entries to customer needs which would result in better, more profitable sales.

 

Pontiac is getting an Aveo and the G5 replacement will ride on Delta II. Alpha was supposed to replace G6, but now it appears that corporate politics have put Pontiac out in the cold.



I agree.

I agree and that is very idealistic. Unfortunately, I don't think GM has the ***** to do it. Recent indications have Pontiac being a "starved" Chevrolet rebadge that will eventually disappear.


And by that you mean "used to" because the new Vue is not surpassing old Vue sales.

I agree.

 

Thank you very much! You are a smart man! The talk of killing brands is absurd and driven by an anti-Detroit, blood thirsty media.

GM needs to figure out how to get the product right before it screws with the brands again.

 

That's what I had read, but it looks like the tea leaves might be bearing something different now. Today, Lutz told reporters Pontiac will be "nourished with product" while noting that the Insignia would be held and that they were concerned about Saturn's seeming inability to move volume.

I really wouldn't be surprised to learn some studio is frantically trying to integrate twin ports into the Insignia's front fender (to the Europeans' dismay and disgust).

 

How do you expect Saturn to sell at the same numbers as Pontiac with far fewer dealers? Saturn has about 450 US dealers. I haven't found the number of Pontiac dealers, but I live in DFW (Irving), lets compare.

There are 5 Saturn dealers in DFW. 2 of them are over 20 miles away.

There are 10 Pontiac dealers less than 20 miles away.

How can Saturn sell at the same volume as Pontiac with far less dealers?

 

How do you expect Saturn to sell anything when they get no ad money? Everyone knows Pontiac, everyone thinks they know plastic Saturn.

 

Right. So the brand has a limited brand network and very little presence in the marketplace.

Why again, did GM give them an all new lineup?

 

Exactly. Not to derail this thread, but when threads were made of Pontiac having a Firebird twin of the 5th gen Camaro, most people cried that Pontiac didn't deserve it or shouldn't have it because it sold in less numbers than Camaro. Well considering Chevy has alot mre dealers, that would make sense. Now, Saturn's lineup isn't selling well, and people use the fact that it doesn't have many dealerships as a reason. So GM shouldn't invest in it
, and invest in an already established brand.

 

Of course you could argue that Pontiac has an underperforming dealer network, poor reputation, and bad demographics, and therefore does not deserve new product either.

But the whole argument kinda misses the point that GM can't support the number of models it has and therefore has to play "russian roulette" with their product updates.

And for some reason people accept that and get into this "my brand rules, your brand sucks" mode. Every brand should have a reasonably new lineup all of the time, and it if doesn't, that signifies deep trouble.

 

Sure, I agree. I don't honestly think Saturn "sucks" or is incapable of moving product if it received the right support. I just think Pontiac is more ready to do what GM needs right now. Despite its considerable baggage, it is more capable of moving volume for less of a marketing investment. People might not love Pontiac, but at the very least, they know what kind of cars the brand sells. I think GM undervalued brand recognition.

I don't think GM understood that in giving Saturn all this new product, they would basically have to introduce the brand to the American public.

 

I think making Pontiac a performance division would actually cause sales to be lost. The cars would be more expensive and worse on gas. This would really hurt the volume there.

Not that I wouldn't love to see Pontiac as a performance division.

 

I also think this plan was ill thought out (I had another thread about this, so sorry if I steered this into another venue for me to bitch and whine about Pontiac).

Somehow, GM looked at their second highest volume car division and thought they could make a neato niche brand out of it. Performance cars are great and everything, don't get me wrong, but it's Grand Am's and Grand Prix's that pay the bills, and somehow GM forgot that. Let's hope they remember now.