To a point. The V8 cars are going to be the 2nd, fun car. But to a guy (or girl) in their 20's, a V6 Camaro may very well be their only car.....and remember......the darn thing has to sell. It has to have some level of practicality and functionality.

You guys seriously crack me up. You go on and on telling us why the 4th Gen was so freakin' lousy, Chevy fixes all that for the 5th Gen, and now it's too practical (why, because the back seats might be a bit bigger, it's more upright, and it has a trunk?) Tim wants another 4th Gen-style car in a package that will suddenly and magically sell what it needs to sell to survive and thrive. Been down that road for a decade. Didn't work.

Ouy. My head hurts.

 

Things is, the third gen was all those things and wasn't as big as this car.

I'm not sure how you made the conclusion I want a continuation of the 4th gen. I want a continuation of the Camaro...but not at the expense of simply putting the name on something that's a departure from its roots.

 

Concept 1969 1990

Wheelbase 110.5 108 in. 101 in.
Length 186 186 in. 192.6 in.
Width 79.6 74 in. 72.8 in.


The concept is 6 inches wider, but 6.6 inches shorter than a third gen., so I guess we have to define "as big."

 

Eric,

his problem is he has no idea the basis for his argument and his points are based on things the Camaro never was marketed to be. Sorry that is FACT.
The Camaro was made to challenge the Ford Mustang..can anyone tell me what Mustangs main goal and mission was?? Yea same for Camaro..

yea Im an excuse maker...


your calling the Camaro a sports car..never is never was..
you make it seam so black and white of "if I wanted a compromise I would of got a sedan" BS...
Dude just go slap a Camaro badge on a corvette and run around that way since your idea is that of a pure sports car and not what Camaro actually has always been. Everything your describing is what Corvette is...Camaro is not that..so your argument again falls flat..sorry...

again tell me why Camaro was put on this earth and then back your statements with your rational of why, and all it leads you to is one thing..

corvette...not Camaro...

me...excuse maker....

Your the one with the excuses...

 

Its been a year now since Ive sold my 69 but the first gen was upright wasnt it? My 98 I had to recline the seat to drive the damned thing but the 69s seat didnt recline at all. It at least seamed to have better head room. You had a lever that went forward and back and you could fold it flat for the rear occupants. The seats were paper thin and didnt lean back at all, and your view over the hood was much better than a 4th gen. Matter of fact all the way around.

Im assuming they went BACK to this. and thats a bad thing why??? Or did you mean something else?

 

We have a winner.

Look, Camaro should not be huge and unwieldly, but for goodness sakes, it has to appeal to more than just the "sports car" crowd or it will be doomed again. It must bring back some level of practicality. I don't see how that "isn't Camaro" simply because the car is going back to its original mission. Since when does "Camaro" have to mean "archaeic, brute-force land missle"?

 

Well, exactly how much practicality does a single 20-something need out of a Camaro? Get them to work/school? Carry a friend or two around? Get some groceries or dry cleaning? I mean come on, that's it. Anything more than that is just silly.

I remember years ago, Scott telling me how many sheets of plywood a 4th gen could carry. I smiled politely, but he might as well have been telling me how important t!ts were on a bull.

 

Charlie......you're age is showing

Remember it's the age of taking everything wherever you go......what with fanny packs, back packs, SUV's, cell phones that do everything short of wiping your @$$, etc....people gotta' have all their possessions in tow.

But I understand the need for a car, IF it's your only car, to have some utilitarian traits.

 

See there are some of us that understand what the Camaro is made for...and it is not to appeal to just the sports car crowd..
The survival of Camaro and I think Scott S. said somthing along the lines of "this sucsess was not on the HiPo versions with mega HP but the bread and butter V6 and the mass appeal of that sucsess.."

Call it a pony car, muscle car, or even a "sports car" (even though its not and dont know why some think it is)
The Camaro is and always will be a car built for many diffrent people..Not for just performance guys in mind...

Its for that guy that drives to work everyday looking for a little extra something on the go peddle..

It is for that boy racer that wants that brute force at the track...

Its for the person that wants the looks of the Camaro and the practicallity of the V6...

Its for the guy that picks his son up everyday at school and his friends that he puts in the back seat..

its for the family that might enjoy a weekend trip in something other than a minivan or SUV...

For the couple that might enjoy the practicallity of a day trip somewhere in a nice sporty 2+2 car and being able to impules shop and actually bring it home in a trunk....

It might be for that guy they grew up dreaming of owning a Camaro..

and you know what this car delivers to all these people...hands down..

That is what Mustang has allways been and if thats any indication of what Camaro stands for..then thats how it is marketed..as we all know brute force is not what will win the war on the dealer floor..we have had that game won for a very long time..it is the number at the end of the year that GM is looking for and for 40+ years Mustang has handed the Camaro its *** in that catagory..

I want the Camaro to be around alot longer than it was laid off for so yes it is not a sport car devoted to beating real sports cars it is going to be everything Mustang is and MORE..once people realize it then they will appreciate it more and not wish it was something else..

 

and for many that will be the case..that is why it has to have its daily uses to be a popular car..

If that was the case everyone would be owning Z06's for fun and driving Silverado's for work..but thats not how everyone plays the game...thats why the game has Camaro in it..

 

I can't believe we're getting hung up on the technicality of the term 'sports car' here. My problem here is really a bunch of old men championing a design that is NOT Camaro (it's not youthful, it's not new, it is old).

You want the basis for my argument? The Camaro is supposed to be a car for the young and young and heart; in style, feel, and overall execution. That means tipping the balance slightly in favor or style over function. Sex appeal over empirical capabilities.

That's exactly what the Mustang always has been. Never the most practical, but enough for one or two people. There are people around here seemingly wanting to haul half their possessions in while hauling around the whole family. You need a sedan, deal with it. That, Jack, is the cold hard fact.

I know the history of both cars, the good, bad and ugly, and if you think this car is a continuation of that lineage you're desperately justifying it.

 

Old men? Dude, I'm 29!

I'm wondering how "young at heart" has to mean an ***-draggin, sitting in the bathtub-feelin, scud missile-lookin car? The current Mustang is none of that but I don't think you'd refer to it as an "old man's car". Mustang has people of all ages, from 16 year-old V6 Suzie to mid-life crisis guy in Shelby GT500, wanting the car. This is what makes the car a success -- a liveable sports coupe package with a sexy design. This has ALWAYS been the definition of a Pony Car in my mind.

I actually think we're on the same page here. To be successful, Camaro had to get more "Mustang-like". Yeah, it pains me to admit that, but it's probably the truth. So what is the argument?

Who on God's Green Earth around here ever suggested the Camaro needs to be as big and as practical as a sedan? Certainly not me. I have suggested that it needs to get back to its roots if it's ever going to survive more than a couple years this time around. That entails getting a bit more competitive with Mustang (aka more mainstream) in terms of seating position, comfort, etc. No, I don't expect my Camaro to ride like a leather sofa (nor do I want it to) and I don't advocate a Dodge Caliber-esque ride height. It has to look good to the masses and be at least as good as Mustang in all the measurables. I do not understand how this car does not do that. I do not understand why you would not classify the 5th Gen as a sports coupe. And I probably never will.

 

why do you keep saying we need sedans? and old? I am 32..I bought my 94 Camaro when I was 19..how is this old??

and I am sorry..youth oriented..well if I missed my guess much of the youth market has an import badge on it FWD and a four banger. More often than not is moms older hammy down car that they riced out with a fart can and wing..thats what you want people to know as Camaro??..
The market your refering to has gone on to what Camaro was intended for and now is into the Fast n Furious..not muscle cars..
The target market for Mustang Camaro or any car like this was the 26-40 year old group..is that old? To me this new Camaro does that with everything the 4th gen did not have.
Sometimes you have to go back to where you left off on what Camaro really means to gain the momentum again..
The camaro is to figure into many different kinds of rolls for many people. Not just one or two segments. If mustang followed this they would of put the pony out to pasture along with the Camaro.

Now..the idea of going back to go forward one reason to get on track again..
How?
Well this is where you cannot say
I am justifying it by this.and not in any way of form desperately..your switching gears here..
The youth market that GM does not have control of?
What was the number one nonsequal movie of the summer..heck the year?
Transformers..to the tune of 700 Million box office..
When the 5th gen appeared the audience was in AWE..I went to see the movie twice..and both time the same reaction..people were just floored by this car..This is the youth audience you were saying they were not connecting with? teens to mid twenty somthings were leaning over asking what it was, what an awsome car, going to get one of those and just gasps of what they were looking at..that target audience..got a good look of the car,,
Not to mention the millions of kids..few of them I saw as we left jumping up and down saying how they loved Bumblebee and want to get his toy..Thats marketing..putting this car in kids minds when they are 10-11-12 years old..commercials cannot do that.
Then go into the toys..I collect die cast cars and love transformers so both have had me a few times walked down the toy isle..again another hit for this car.. to see kids looking for Bumblebee asking "where is the yellow car" to thier moms. Finding them again in aww at what they could find or flipping the back of the box over saying they want to get this one or that one. Most of the time pointing right at the 5th gen..finding a 5th gen and pleading to thier moms to buy it..Thats youth marketing thats what GM needs..and that will ensure that when they grow up heck they had the toy..well now at 16..lets get the real thing..How can you go wrong with that?
Again with Transformers as a fan I have been on many of those sites and know first hand that many of your idea of "young and young at heart"..say 20-30 somthings all have had posts about the 5th gen..asking about it..wanting it..and cannot wait to see it in real life. Millions of people attracted to a car just because it was an Autobot...millions of people now knowing what Camaro is..
Will all these people buy one? No but at least it is now in thier heads to be on the lookout for one..and heck Transformers 2 is to drop right around the time the 5th gen is to make its introduction to the dealers.

to the auto shows. I have seen dozeons of pics with kids just oggling the car..with smiles..the cars a hit on the show circuit..and that also plays a part in it..

Its not the size of the car or anything like that. Its what it means to millions of different people..how can they afford a Camaro..
Can I get the top of the line SS model with 400 plus HP? for 35K? I think GM can give us that..
Can I get a sporty V6 Camaro with great gas milage and an eye catching body for 20K? GM can give us that..
Can I get something in between that? Yes that is what Camaro is supposed to be able to do..Its all in the image of what this car means to them..This car more than any other lives up to what is expected in the new Camaro ..daily life is not like it was back in 1967 the car has gone back to its roots but still looks to give what the counsumer of todays needs in an every day car in 12007...how you treat it is up to you..and old stying?? It worked for Mustang..and that is what Camaro was made for..and the Camaro does not just follow its lineage it takes it to the next level..This Camaro is everything we remeber but nothing we ever driven..