Let's say you're looking for a RWD, VERY fun to drive, manual trans car, that can squeeze in 5 passengers a pinch (3 of them kids) and don't want to spend more than low 30's....what do you buy?

Not lots of choices kids. 2.8 CTS is the closest we get from GM, or for that matter from any domestic. 3.6, M6, CTS with sport pkg and afew options is in the high 30's.

Anyhooo, the BMW 325i sport package. I know alot of you...or even most of you... think the whole BMW thing is over rated and basically alot of BS. But man-oh-man, what a fun, well engineered car. Chassis, brakes, steering, motor, performance seats, just overall feel......the whole thing...these Bavarians have all nailed down BIG TIME!

I liked it alot, but I'm afraid. Afraid that if I get one, I won't ever look at a domestic product seriously again.

 

I'll have to agree with you there, BMW and Germans in general make some great driving machines. Having been here in Germany for nearly 3 years now, and spent some extended time with their cars. I can't deny that I like them. I'll be getting myself a VW Jetta 1.8T once I'm in the states until the 5th Gen rolls around.

Just be ready to pay out your **** to keep them running! Though BMW is probably the better quality company as compared to VW or Merc, they all have some quality issues in terms of electronics and mechanics. Guess you can't have it all I suppose. I've never spent more time in a 3 year span working on cars than here. All the GI's who drive BMW's are always working on something. Not many drive Merc's, and mostly old old VW's... but there are BMW's everywhere... and ironically enough... very few of the germans I work with even drive German cars.

I just wonder why GM can't build a rwd sedan with an ind. rear, other than a CTS.

 

GTO!!!! ....... oh wait, that is only for 4 people.... close enough

I drove an M3 abot 2 years ago up from Atlanta to Albany NY and I loved that car, if they were $30,000 I would have bought one that week. I test drove a GTO about 1 year ago and that is the closest thing to a M3 you can get for under $35,000 (and the GTO was faster )

Pontiac needs a 5 seat 4 door GTO, and you are right BMW makes an awesome car and that should be the bench mark for Pontiacs Grand Prix replacement. If I can get a Pontiac that is 95% as good as a BMW for 66% of the price then I'm sold.

 

New E90 3 series is a solid car. I haven't driven it yet, but have driven the previous gen E46's and loved that.

There's a good reason why it is the best selling entry level luxury sedan.

BMW has a solid lineup in the 3-series. 215hp 325i, 255hp 330i, and upcoming 330hp turbocharged 335i and 400hp M3.

That's quite a variety.

 

So...what color are you getting

 

Ok, I just built a pretty much base 325 with the sports package and it came out to $34,000. That is with NO options except the sports package. I then built the car with some options that I would actually want in a BMW and it started getting much closer to $40k. No doubt that the BMW is a great car, but you would be buying their base model for what you want to spend. If I was in the market for a BMW, I would at least want it to be luxurious and have options, no?

 

The 3-series is a great machine for those that like to drive - it's a very direct feeling car and can be lots of fun on the back roads.

However I have the following problems with the 3-series:

-Too underpowered for the price and how its marketed - the 325 is just not powerful enough to get excited about, even the new 330 motor (up to 255hp) still gets toasted by the IS - the turbo version should fix that but damn how much more expensive are they going to let the 3-series get!? Which brings me to my next point

-Too expensive! The 330i RWD automatic hard top model hits 50 GRAND when loaded to the hilt and is still missing quite a few features that can be found on the competition at that price. 50 grand? We're talking a whole new class of car, not entry level - yet the 3 series approaches that range without hesitation. Go look at the convertible or AWD model and it gets even worse. Up to 56 grand! Let's just wait and see what the turbo model hits.

-Rides pretty rough/noisey, but then again I can accept that as a compromise for the 'sport' factor. Still, I get tired of people slamming other entry level cars for not handling like the 3-series... well, the 3-series is also quite a bit less luxurious in terms of ride, noise, etc so pick your preference.

-Shady reliability and hard to diagnose/expensive repairs. Not a problem as long as you sell the car before the warranty runs out and don't mind the occasional trip to your dealer to get stuff fixed.

 

The base car comes pretty loaded....well for me anyway. It even comes with a standard sunroof. Adding only the sport package to that would be just fine with me.

 

And that gets you into S4 land. Life is full of brain sloshing goodness in S4 land

 

Not so much bs, but for an everyday driver friendly car, the BMW's are over rated for my tastes. No doubt it is a good car, but as Threxx pointed out, there are some obvious drawbacks. Actually, I'm suprised you'd post a thing like this, Charlie. Not that you're wrong, just you raving about a Bimmer shocked me.

I don't understand why you wouldn't take domestics seriously though. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

But you still won't find me in a German car, thanks.

I'll give my standard recomendation of a dose of '06 GP GXP. Yes, two totally different types of car, but its mission is the same; carry five people in comfort on both the hiway and the curvy.....fast!

Can you tell I like the GXP yet?

 

I traded in a 2004 325i (only option sport package) on my 2004 GTO. If you stick a 350 hp 365 ftlb LS1 into a E46 3 series, I'm there! BTW, I paid sticker for mine and it was $30,400 plus tax and tag. Of course, I had to special order it to get what I wanted. The local bimmer dealer doesn't stock manual trannys at all. Black/black with sport package and 5 speed. Like I said, if it had 350 hp I would probably still have it. But I really missed that LS1 (had a 01 Formula prior to the bimmer) and then they had a fire sale on goats last fall.....

 

50 grand should also get you an M3 coupe. And that turbocharged 3 series should be in the 40's.

I'm sure a well equipped 330i can be had for around 40k.

German cars tend to have very generous option lists so it's no surprise. Did you know you can option a Porsche Boxster well into 6 figures?? I did for fun and ended up with a 105,000 dollar Boxster. 105,000 will also buy you a 911 GT3.

So options in relation to price can be decieving ,especially if one goes crazy on options on one particular car.

I doubt too many people will be driving 56,000 dollar 3-series. For that price, most BMW owners will settle for an M3 convertible or well optioned 5 series. For bit more, they can even get into a 6 series.

 

I don't know about that. I think the ride was just about perfect. Firm yet very compliant. Just a very pleasantly sporty ride.


As far as not being very powerful, I disagree, it'll run high 14's easy. Not Viper territory, but that 3.0L I6 is just a gem of a motor and gets great mileage. Smooth, willing, responsive. Makes nice noises too.

 

My wife wants a 3 series convertible for her next car. I'm so dead set against buying a BMW, that I'm trying to talk her into anything else on the market. (It has to be a convertible, and it has to be red.) There's nothing wrong with BMW except with the negative connotation associated with BMW owners in these parts. (They're all rich, stuck-up ******. )

Worse case scenario, I talk her into a Mercedes CLK350 cabriolet. Best case scenario? She likes the looks of the 5th gen Camaro.

 

Hmmm, a wide variety of engine choices....why on earth would you want to give a car more than 2 engine choices...