I usually go by magazine averages because it's testing procedures are consistent.

If people are getting quicker times than what magazines post for one car, they will also get quicker times with another. If the average speed they are getting from LS1 Camaros is say 13.8 seconds, then they test a GTO at 13.8 seconds, then it really doesn't matter what you get at the track since it's established that both cars are the same speed, even if someone gets 13.3 out a a stock Camaro. In this instance, no doubt GTO is also capable of this speed.

Manufacturer performance estimates are usually very conservative, especially at General Motors. If they say GTO is going to be a sub 14 second runner, and car mags put LS1 F bods in the upper 13's, not only is it likely GTO is as quick as a LS1 Z28, there is the realistic possibility it could actually be quicker.

Of course, we won't know for sure for a couple of months, but I suspect quite a few people will be shocked.

Remember... a year and a half ago, I was chastised for posting that the SC Cobra was as quick as a Corvette and was underrated in horsepower, just before the car magazines confirming this hit the stands.

 

Well, I'll chastise you again. I have been keeping up on the quarter mile times in magazines as well. The '98-'00 were normally mid 13's, I recall one being a high 13 in Road and Track. But, '01 - '02s have been low 13's, with GMHTP running a sub-13 on one occasion and a low 13 in another. Also, some magazines didn't test the newer models. And again, putting on a new lid and filter puts most LS1s in the low 13s if they couldn't get there stock. You're also forgetting something else. The exhaust on WS6s and SSs are better than the base V8 models.

Maybe I've been around a little longer, but TPI 3rd gens had lots of trouble duplicating low 14s that several magazines ran for later model 3rd gens. So I don't agree that all cars will universally be faster or slower than magazine times. What I do know is that you haven't kept up on LS1s performance on any of the boards. You're also comparing pre-'01 times. Are you even aware that '01+ LS1s have an LS6 intake? I've been trolling ls1.com and ls1tech.com boards since '01 when I bought one. At that time, better times and dynos were consistently being posted for the '01+ LS1s, and that's only continued so it wasn't a fluke.

You're right that GM sometimes has low ratings. But I'd argue that's more for advertising purposes than anything else. Its been shown 100x over that LS1 Corvette's and F-bodies dyno about the same. Yet, GM advertised the Corvette as having 40 hp more. That's because the Corvette is top dog. But in this case, to offset some of the bad press about styling and to lure BMW and Lexus owners that are very hp and image conscious, the hp rating is back at 350.

You weren't chastised by me.

 

You are right about me basing my times on the pre 2001 LS1s. I just found out the blocks (as well as other parts) on the LS1 were the same as the LS6 this past winter. I was even told the story as to how it happened, and the fact that it was then (starting with 2001s) the LS1 became seriously underrated (I'll PM it to you if you want). So I'll conceeded I haven't really checked since I found this out.

I will though.

PS: I wasn't refering directly to you in the chastize department. I was refering to doubts in general. According to info so far GTO's torque, though about 10 more than Camaro's is engineered much lower in the engine speed range, which should at least partially offset the 200 pound difference. Perhaps it may in fact be slower than the newer LS1 Z28, but we are talking about perhaps less than 0.5 seconds in the quarter mile. I'm sure that you realize in this instance, that makes it a drivers race.

 

I want a PM about this too,please

 

Done.

 

If you wouldn't mind a 3rd PM, good sir!

 

GuionM,

I'm curious about the LS6 block...Is there a reason that you can't post it on the board?

 

Guion, just post it. There was a story about it in GMHTP.....I don't believe it's confidential info.

 

If you don't post what your talking about a PM would be nice, thanks.

 

When are the first deliveries of the new GTO expected?