http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374/


I've yet to see a real downside to ethanol production as a means to lessen our oil dependancies...but I do see real upsides to it.

 

More....

 

Okay, so how about the government keeps my $100 and gives the private sector inventives to do this?

 

As long as big oil is in control, don't expect any major steps towards weaning ourselves off of it. America needs to s**t of get off the pot, and real soon.

 

The problem with E85 is that its a short term solution. It still requires some fossil fuel useage and in this case its typically a lower grade of gasoline that the ethanol is combined with. What needs to be done is a more serious push with alternative fuel sources and powerplants that won't rely heavily on fossil fuels, rather than sinking a huge financial investment into something that can only be a short term solution. It really is time to start thinking outside the box.

 

It does not require fossiel fuel to make ehtonal. It requires energy. That can come from nuclear, wind, water, electric, natural gas, oil, what ever.

Now, you do have to mix it with 15% gas....mainly do to cold starts.

 

Yep. Exactly. I am getting sick and tired of having to point out known *facts*.

-Ethanol can be derived from wood chips, wood sawdust (vast, humungous amounts of this are produced every year in the USA alone), wood pulp, switchgass, pine-needles, corn - and that's just for starters. The processes and yields may be different for different source materials and some of these processes need more work to become commerically viable - but that is a matter of demand. Not *if* it can be done.

-Ethanol can be used to produce more Ethanol. Well, duh!

-Ethanol is suitable for production and consumption near large populations promoting localised energy independance. If the refineries on the coast get trashed again... people in the Mid-West still will have fuel.

-American Farmers and local farm economies will benefit.

-It's so friggin' obvious to anyone without their head in the sand that the only people who don't want Ethanol are big-oil, the coal crowd and their hangers on in the political structure.

-Fossil fuel industry must at all costs not be allowed to stifle or take over the fledgling Ethanol industry. Competition not monopoly is what makes capitalism work for all of us - not just the fat cat oil execs. Getting off of oil is a national security priority and anyone with an ounce of genuine pride and patriotism should embrace the notion.

-Um, if Ethanol is a short term solution (which it is not if we choose to embrace it) then what the f***k is gasolene? It ain't gonna last forever and is truly non-renewable. Ethanol s derived from renewable sources. Hybrid gas / electric cars - now there's a short-term solution!

 

I think some people aren't letting themselves believe this for some reason. And I don't know why...

 

They can have my leaves and lawn mower clipping to make Ethanol with, I don't need them

What pissed me off in that video is what the oil guy told the Ethanol guy "don't mess with us, we can drop the price of gas very easily and put you out of buisness" basically admiting that they are artificially keeping gas prices high now.

If it works in Brazil (5 largest population in the world, USA is #3) then it can work in the USA. We don't even need E85 or E100. Since we import 58% of our oil we really only need to use E58 (or the national avg. of) to become independant.

Making all regular gas E10 and requiring all new cars by 2012 to be E85 compatable would be a good start. Like the video said, the best thing about E85 is that you have choice over what fuel you put in your car.

 

Which is what I was referring to. There is no current plan run 100% ethanol in the US. You would still be mixing it with low grade gasoline. When you consider the inital start up costs, this means a huge investment into something is still primarily based on fossil fuels and is still a short term solution.

For the long term we need to go back to the drawing board and look at other alternatives. Electric vehicles died because of the expense of (and size of) batteries. Why? Hasn't technology advanced in the last 10 years? Look at the diminishing sizes of electronic devices, the size of their power sources and their usuable life and tell me this can't be done.

The oil companies and the auto manufacturers would love for E85 to be a long term solution, but they know it really isn't. All I'm suggesting is that we don't limit ourselves to dying technologies.

 

You need to step off your pedestal for a second bub. I'm not saying gasoline is the answer. I'm saying that ethanol is not the long-term solution to our gasoline and oil problems. Ethanol also is not the environmentally friendly and clean fuel alternative its proponents would lead us to believe it is.

We need a cleaner and more viable long-term energy solution. While ethanol may be an improvement, is it a step in the right direction, or is it just prolonging the inevitable?

 

You've got a legitimate idea here: battery technology has increased tremendously since GM put away it's EV1 vehicles. If you made a vehicle that had a 150 mile/day range and could be recharged overnight, I think many many people would be attracted to it has the "2nd vehicle in a household". You wouldn't take it on trips, but you could do your daily errands and commute to/from work easily - and never see a gas pump again.

 

There is still the matter of Heat and A/C. Heat wouldn't be a big problem, but it would cause a large drain in energy. A/C would be a lot more problamatic. It may not be a big deal in the north where you can get by without it but I know I would need it here!

As far as E85 goes. Since you only need 15% of the amount of gas you can make gas last over 6 times longer than it does now! So if we have 20 years of gas left that would convert into over 120 years!! That leaves us with a lot of time to come up with other alternatives.

 

True.....BUT, what fuel do you use to make the electricity to re-charge the batteries? Using more fuel to make power lessens it's real benefit. What happens to our infrastructure when a couple of million vehicles are drawing heavy amps during recharging?

This also still doesn't fix a real problem with electric cars...recharge time. How do you drive long distances, as in across country or on a vacation when you have to stop and wait for hours to recharge? Sure, you could do it at night while sleeping, but I've driven over 1,000 miles in a day....no electric car will ever do that....not in my life time.

 

Batteries still suck and they are very toxic so disposal is also a PITA.