View Poll Results: If GM were to Build Three Vehicles, On Evok's RWD-Lite Architecture. Would they sell?
Yes
33
71.74%
No
13
28.26%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
If They Build Them? Will They Come
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2
Zeta-Lite - If They Build Them? Will They Come
The three Vehicles Would be.
Camaro
Nomad
G-5 (Torana)
Both the Torana TT36 and The 1999 Nomad Concepts, Fit the Dimensions prescribed by Evok.
Torana TT36
Length: 183.2 IN / 4653 MM
Width: 70.87 IN / 1800 MM
Wheelbase: 112.0 IN / 2844 MM
1999 Nomad
length: 185.1 in /4702 mm
width 72.2 in /1834 mm
wheelbase / 114.1 in /2898 mm
Camaro and Nomad would share the Same Design Theme.
Three Vehicles 1 Plant 250 k capacity
Evoks RWD-Lite Architecture
[QUOTE ]
Body Structure:
Start with sigma wide and cut the wheelbase to 113in. Trim the overhangs and make the vehicle 188in OAL. Be sure to take out all the fluff that adds cost for NVH Cadillac reasons. Not needed for this application. The quiet steel and foam have to go.
Structure is already validated and FMVSS compliant.
Electrical Architecture:
Carryover Zeta
Steering:
Carryover base CTS
Front Suspension:
Simple McPherson strut set up to save cost.
Rear Suspension:
Rear live axle from the SSR. It already is validated to the 6.0l V8
Seats:
Carryover Epsilon Structure
Transmission:
Carryover GTO auto and manual
Powertrain:
Base engine 3.6l V6 carryover
Uplevel engine 400hp 6.0l V8 carryover
[/Quote]
Camaro
Nomad
G-5 (Torana)
Both the Torana TT36 and The 1999 Nomad Concepts, Fit the Dimensions prescribed by Evok.
Torana TT36
Length: 183.2 IN / 4653 MM
Width: 70.87 IN / 1800 MM
Wheelbase: 112.0 IN / 2844 MM
1999 Nomad
length: 185.1 in /4702 mm
width 72.2 in /1834 mm
wheelbase / 114.1 in /2898 mm
Camaro and Nomad would share the Same Design Theme.
Three Vehicles 1 Plant 250 k capacity
Evoks RWD-Lite Architecture
[QUOTE ]
Body Structure:
Start with sigma wide and cut the wheelbase to 113in. Trim the overhangs and make the vehicle 188in OAL. Be sure to take out all the fluff that adds cost for NVH Cadillac reasons. Not needed for this application. The quiet steel and foam have to go.
Structure is already validated and FMVSS compliant.
Electrical Architecture:
Carryover Zeta
Steering:
Carryover base CTS
Front Suspension:
Simple McPherson strut set up to save cost.
Rear Suspension:
Rear live axle from the SSR. It already is validated to the 6.0l V8
Seats:
Carryover Epsilon Structure
Transmission:
Carryover GTO auto and manual
Powertrain:
Base engine 3.6l V6 carryover
Uplevel engine 400hp 6.0l V8 carryover
[/Quote]
Last edited by Norton; Apr 16, 2005 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Re Title
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 576
From: Houston, TX
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Keep the exterior designs very different and modify the interior as necessary as well and it will work. Marketing muscle will be needed plus the costs of the different fascias etc. but if it pays off in greater sales and "buzz" it will be worth it.
(NB: I'm talking about 300C/Charger different with different characteristics -perhaps a diff. suspension)
(NB: I'm talking about 300C/Charger different with different characteristics -perhaps a diff. suspension)
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Torana:
A 188", live rear axle car, sort of defeats the the purpose of a less expensive 3 series competitor....don't you think?
Camaro:
I think we know how I feel about that.
Nomad:
Ok, maybe we've got something there. But wouldn't it drive alittle crudely compared to a Dodge Magnum?
A 188", live rear axle car, sort of defeats the the purpose of a less expensive 3 series competitor....don't you think?
Camaro:
I think we know how I feel about that.
Nomad:
Ok, maybe we've got something there. But wouldn't it drive alittle crudely compared to a Dodge Magnum?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
I think there's a chance.
However, as long as Lori Queen runs small cars at GM, it's not very likely you'll see a small RWD sedan at GM.
She doesn't believe it would sell in the US, and without the volume of US sales, there's no way it will happen for Holden in the smaller Aussie market, and it won't happen for Europe.
The new Cadillac BLS would have been a good Torana offshoot.
However, as long as Lori Queen runs small cars at GM, it's not very likely you'll see a small RWD sedan at GM.
She doesn't believe it would sell in the US, and without the volume of US sales, there's no way it will happen for Holden in the smaller Aussie market, and it won't happen for Europe.
The new Cadillac BLS would have been a good Torana offshoot.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,954
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Originally Posted by guionM
I think there's a chance.
However, as long as Lori Queen runs small cars at GM, it's not very likely you'll see a small RWD sedan at GM.
She doesn't believe it would sell in the US, and without the volume of US sales, there's no way it will happen for Holden in the smaller Aussie market, and it won't happen for Europe.
The new Cadillac BLS would have been a good Torana offshoot.
However, as long as Lori Queen runs small cars at GM, it's not very likely you'll see a small RWD sedan at GM.
She doesn't believe it would sell in the US, and without the volume of US sales, there's no way it will happen for Holden in the smaller Aussie market, and it won't happen for Europe.
The new Cadillac BLS would have been a good Torana offshoot.
Does anyone else get the feeling that its time that GM got some new upper level management?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Originally Posted by redzed
Hmmm.....I guess it's time to add another name to the "Axis of Aztek."
Does anyone else get the feeling that its time that GM got some new upper level management 10 years ago?
Does anyone else get the feeling that its time that GM got some new upper level management 10 years ago?
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
uuhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm....
the 1999 Nomad???
want to guess what it was built off of?????????
(insert Jeopardy music here..........)
think about it...........
.............no peeking.......just say it.........
..............ready????
a 1996 CAMARO!!!!
I know because I wrote it off so the Nomad could be built!
the 1999 Nomad???
want to guess what it was built off of?????????
(insert Jeopardy music here..........)
think about it...........
.............no peeking.......just say it.........
..............ready????
a 1996 CAMARO!!!!
I know because I wrote it off so the Nomad could be built!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
No way, leave Lori in there. She seems to be doing a good job. I think Lutz needs to have a sit down with her. A Torana-esque car would be a fantastic idea IMO, and if I am correct, fits the "we already make it so its cheap" idea.
Its off Kappa. How off Kappa, no one knows (ok, someone), but the chassis is already here. We are looking at a BLS for American AND Europe, a G6 for Pontiac(coupe and sedan with vert), a Camaro for Chevy, and Torana. Tell me thats not enough volume? 200k G6's, 100k Camaros, maybe another 200k Between Oz and Europe for Torana and BLS with a possiblity of a special niche car like a Nomad to replace HHR and lets not forget a great chassis for the Saab 9-3, and whos to say that Opel/Vaux wont want it etiher? . Thats a half a million cars. Why cant we make a business case for this?
Maybe after the dust settles...who knows. Maybe the Torana's chassis is so one-off that it would take a lot of cash to make it? If its something like Kappa with a CTS rear, I dont see the problem.
Its off Kappa. How off Kappa, no one knows (ok, someone), but the chassis is already here. We are looking at a BLS for American AND Europe, a G6 for Pontiac(coupe and sedan with vert), a Camaro for Chevy, and Torana. Tell me thats not enough volume? 200k G6's, 100k Camaros, maybe another 200k Between Oz and Europe for Torana and BLS with a possiblity of a special niche car like a Nomad to replace HHR and lets not forget a great chassis for the Saab 9-3, and whos to say that Opel/Vaux wont want it etiher? . Thats a half a million cars. Why cant we make a business case for this?
Maybe after the dust settles...who knows. Maybe the Torana's chassis is so one-off that it would take a lot of cash to make it? If its something like Kappa with a CTS rear, I dont see the problem.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
No way, leave Lori in there. She seems to be doing a good job. I think Lutz needs to have a sit down with her. A Torana-esque car would be a fantastic idea IMO, and if I am correct, fits the "we already make it so its cheap" idea.
Its off Kappa. How off Kappa, no one knows (ok, someone), but the chassis is already here. We are looking at a BLS for American AND Europe, a G6 for Pontiac(coupe and sedan with vert), a Camaro for Chevy, and Torana. Tell me thats not enough volume? 200k G6's, 100k Camaros, maybe another 200k Between Oz and Europe for Torana and BLS with a possiblity of a special niche car like a Nomad to replace HHR and lets not forget a great chassis for the Saab 9-3, and whos to say that Opel/Vaux wont want it etiher? . Thats a half a million cars. Why cant we make a business case for this?
Maybe after the dust settles...who knows. Maybe the Torana's chassis is so one-off that it would take a lot of cash to make it? If its something like Kappa with a CTS rear, I dont see the problem.
Its off Kappa. How off Kappa, no one knows (ok, someone), but the chassis is already here. We are looking at a BLS for American AND Europe, a G6 for Pontiac(coupe and sedan with vert), a Camaro for Chevy, and Torana. Tell me thats not enough volume? 200k G6's, 100k Camaros, maybe another 200k Between Oz and Europe for Torana and BLS with a possiblity of a special niche car like a Nomad to replace HHR and lets not forget a great chassis for the Saab 9-3, and whos to say that Opel/Vaux wont want it etiher? . Thats a half a million cars. Why cant we make a business case for this?
Maybe after the dust settles...who knows. Maybe the Torana's chassis is so one-off that it would take a lot of cash to make it? If its something like Kappa with a CTS rear, I dont see the problem.
Lori Queen is dead set against any sort of smaller premium car for GM. She feels that if Americans are spending more money - they want something larger. If they are spending less money...they want a FWD.
I also believe that good 'ole Bob needs to have a sit down with her....and maybe give her the facts of life. After all, I believe we are the largest global market for the 3 series and we also consume lots of MB C-class, A4s and others. Small premium cars??....I'd say that we love'em!
The Torana's architecture could be developed...maybe not completely on the cheap, but not too expensively either. Certainly for less than Zeta would have cost. And the Torana's architecture would hit a sweet spot with a number of medium sized RWD GM products for global distribution.
But here's the kicker......
If the Torana's architecture were developed for use by a number of GM products.....a Camaro could be built off of it INCREDIBLY INEXPENSIVELY. We could get a full boogey modern chassis for LESS money than the low brow, crude, archaic truck-cars which are listed in this poll.
Come on Lori...join the winning team and get with the program.
Last edited by Z284ever; Apr 18, 2005 at 08:51 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Re: If They Build Them? Will They Come
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Sounds like a good business case to me.
Lori Queen is dead set against any sort of smaller premium car for GM. She feels that if Americans are spending more money - they want something larger. If they are spending less money...they want a FWD.
I also believe that good 'ole Bob needs to have a sit down with her....and maybe give her the facts of life. After all, I believe we are the largest global market for the 3 series and we also consume lots of MB C-class, A4s and others. Small premium cars??....I'd say that we love'em!
The Torana's architecture could be developed...maybe not completely on the cheap, but not too expensively either. Certainly for less than Zeta would have cost. And the Torana's architecture would hit a sweet spot with a number of medium sized RWD GM products for global distribution.
But here's the kicker......
If the Torana's architecture were developed for use by a number of GM products.....a Camaro could be built off of it INCREDIBLY INEXPENSIVELY. We could get a full boogey modern chassis for LESS money than the low brow, crude, archaic truck-cars which are listed in this poll.
Come on Lori...join the winning team and get with the program.
Lori Queen is dead set against any sort of smaller premium car for GM. She feels that if Americans are spending more money - they want something larger. If they are spending less money...they want a FWD.
I also believe that good 'ole Bob needs to have a sit down with her....and maybe give her the facts of life. After all, I believe we are the largest global market for the 3 series and we also consume lots of MB C-class, A4s and others. Small premium cars??....I'd say that we love'em!
The Torana's architecture could be developed...maybe not completely on the cheap, but not too expensively either. Certainly for less than Zeta would have cost. And the Torana's architecture would hit a sweet spot with a number of medium sized RWD GM products for global distribution.
But here's the kicker......
If the Torana's architecture were developed for use by a number of GM products.....a Camaro could be built off of it INCREDIBLY INEXPENSIVELY. We could get a full boogey modern chassis for LESS money than the low brow, crude, archaic truck-cars which are listed in this poll.
Come on Lori...join the winning team and get with the program.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,370
From: Germany
Re: Zeta-Lite - If They Build Them? Will They Come
Originally Posted by SGT Posaune
the Nomad sould be the 2004 version built on the Kappa architecture