If 4th gen production continued....would anyone buy?
07-13-2002, 09:28 AM
#32
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
Then he says "I just sold that 94 Z28 (which he and others never liked much) because I was looking for an IROC 350. Well he then goes on to tell me that he could not find an IROC-Z that he wanted for sale, so, he went and bought a new M*****g.</font>
Then he says "I just sold that 94 Z28 (which he and others never liked much) because I was looking for an IROC 350. Well he then goes on to tell me that he could not find an IROC-Z that he wanted for sale, so, he went and bought a new M*****g.</font>
And since when are all cars with curved lines imports? So the C5 looks like an import? I'd take a C5 over a C4 anyday. To say straight lines = muscle cars is ridiculous. What do you think all of the cars looked like at the time? And the Chrysler front end? Ok, so for half of its life it had a front end treatment that was less popular. The first 5 years it was a sleeked back version of the Third gen. What about the front end update of the Firebirds? That doesn't scream muscle car?
It's ignorant to overlook the Fourth gen existed under different circumstances. Besides, I remember the Mustang 5.0 as being the hero of that era; not the Third gen. Oh well, "It's Really Only a Camaro" (with leaky T-tops no less) and maybe that's why Third gen guys are so defensive.
07-13-2002, 09:54 AM
#33
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About 2 weeks or so ago, I went to the Camaro show at Tom Henry Chevy, near Pittsburgh, PA.
The Camaro Legends tour was there, as was RP!
Anyway, my point is, while I was there, I saw probably 4-5 1st gens, 4-5 2nd gens, 2-3 3rd gens, and like 50 4th gens.
I was there about 3-4 hours.
I can't imagine Pittsburgh is the 4th gen haven of the world... so...
The Camaro Legends tour was there, as was RP!
Anyway, my point is, while I was there, I saw probably 4-5 1st gens, 4-5 2nd gens, 2-3 3rd gens, and like 50 4th gens.
I was there about 3-4 hours.
I can't imagine Pittsburgh is the 4th gen haven of the world... so...
07-13-2002, 11:03 AM
#34
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jrp4uc:
[B] He couldn't find one because they were all rusted out sitting in trailer parks and backyards. The Third gens established the whole mullet and gold chains reputation that haunted the Fourth gens' sales and image.
]</font>
[B] He couldn't find one because they were all rusted out sitting in trailer parks and backyards. The Third gens established the whole mullet and gold chains reputation that haunted the Fourth gens' sales and image.
]</font>
07-13-2002, 11:18 AM
#35
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
About 2 weeks or so ago, I went to the Camaro show at Tom Henry Chevy, near Pittsburgh, PA.
The Camaro Legends tour was there, as was RP!
Anyway, my point is, while I was there, I saw probably 4-5 1st gens, 4-5 2nd gens, 2-3 3rd gens, and like 50 4th gens.
I was there about 3-4 hours.
I can't imagine Pittsburgh is the 4th gen haven of the world... so...</font>
About 2 weeks or so ago, I went to the Camaro show at Tom Henry Chevy, near Pittsburgh, PA.
The Camaro Legends tour was there, as was RP!
Anyway, my point is, while I was there, I saw probably 4-5 1st gens, 4-5 2nd gens, 2-3 3rd gens, and like 50 4th gens.
I was there about 3-4 hours.
I can't imagine Pittsburgh is the 4th gen haven of the world... so...</font>
-Mike
07-13-2002, 01:07 PM
#36
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Just to put things in perspective guys, two weeks ago, I entered my 3rd gen in a show and took home a trophy.
There are lots of low miles, original,really nice 3rd gens in the Chicago area (and alot of beaters too)...and yes some people have started restoring them.
There are lots of low miles, original,really nice 3rd gens in the Chicago area (and alot of beaters too)...and yes some people have started restoring them.
07-13-2002, 04:02 PM
#37
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To answer the original post, no I wouldn't buy another 4th gen if it continued as is. I had a chance last winter of grabbing a new police version. I decided against it because save for the engine & the front end (which I'm not a great fan of) it was identical to my 97. If I'm going to spend the next 4 or 5 years of my life paying off a new car, why in the world would I do it for a car I already have?
As for what is the best generation Camaro, I say the 4th gen, the 1st few years in particular. I had use of a 93 for some time that was solid all around despite having 140,000 miles on it, yet at 45,000 miles, my 97's window trim started loosing on the doors, the alternator went out at 60,000 miles and the driver's side power window will give up the ghost any day now.
I also really like the second generation Camaros. I think for their day, they really reached designwise. Compare their interiors to other designs of the day and there is nothing to compare it to.
As for the 3rd gen's "trailer park" reputation, that came about as those cars aged. All those plentiful used 3rd gen Camaros, and the fact they were produced for 10 years meant near firesale prices! They certainly didn't have that reputation when they were new.
As for Mustang's sales during the 80's, the Fox Mustang was dying almost as soon as it came out. In 79, the Mustang, for it's day, had good handling and respectable performance. But then issues came up over it's metric size tires, and a short time later, the only V8 you could get was a 115hp 255ci with automatic only.
If it wasn't for the '82 GT, and later, the across the board availibility of the 5.0, the Mustang of the 80's would have had a shorter different history. The "Probe" Mustang was initially scheduled to come out in the mid-80's.
If it wasn't for the 3rd gen Camaro, Ford would have never approved the GT 5.0 (a skunkworks project that went from idea to production in less than 10 months) to take some of the shine off the then new f-body introduction.
As for what is the best generation Camaro, I say the 4th gen, the 1st few years in particular. I had use of a 93 for some time that was solid all around despite having 140,000 miles on it, yet at 45,000 miles, my 97's window trim started loosing on the doors, the alternator went out at 60,000 miles and the driver's side power window will give up the ghost any day now.
I also really like the second generation Camaros. I think for their day, they really reached designwise. Compare their interiors to other designs of the day and there is nothing to compare it to.
As for the 3rd gen's "trailer park" reputation, that came about as those cars aged. All those plentiful used 3rd gen Camaros, and the fact they were produced for 10 years meant near firesale prices! They certainly didn't have that reputation when they were new.
As for Mustang's sales during the 80's, the Fox Mustang was dying almost as soon as it came out. In 79, the Mustang, for it's day, had good handling and respectable performance. But then issues came up over it's metric size tires, and a short time later, the only V8 you could get was a 115hp 255ci with automatic only.
If it wasn't for the '82 GT, and later, the across the board availibility of the 5.0, the Mustang of the 80's would have had a shorter different history. The "Probe" Mustang was initially scheduled to come out in the mid-80's.
If it wasn't for the 3rd gen Camaro, Ford would have never approved the GT 5.0 (a skunkworks project that went from idea to production in less than 10 months) to take some of the shine off the then new f-body introduction.
07-13-2002, 04:31 PM
#38
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by transam8:
I witnessed the same thing. Apparently there must be some people who like 4th gens... Anyways, Darth, did you have your car there, I don't remember seeing it.
-Mike
</font>
I witnessed the same thing. Apparently there must be some people who like 4th gens... Anyways, Darth, did you have your car there, I don't remember seeing it.
-Mike
</font>
My Z28 is a 99, Bright Red, T-Tops, grey interior... I don't have a ton of mods... looks stock except for the Borla exhaust...
------------------
Darth Xed
1999 Camaro Z28
LS-1 6 Speed
Mods: Borla Cat-Back; Bridgestone Potenza RE730's; MTI Air Lid; Holley Power Shot; Flux-Capacitor
07-13-2002, 04:55 PM
#39
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
Yeah, I parked the Z in the back row. I wasd there Sunday from probably 10am to 1 or 2 pm I'd guess...
My Z28 is a 99, Bright Red, T-Tops, grey interior... I don't have a ton of mods... looks stock except for the Borla exhaust...
</font>
Yeah, I parked the Z in the back row. I wasd there Sunday from probably 10am to 1 or 2 pm I'd guess...
My Z28 is a 99, Bright Red, T-Tops, grey interior... I don't have a ton of mods... looks stock except for the Borla exhaust...
</font>
-Mike
07-13-2002, 11:33 PM
#40
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New gen or not, LS1 or LS6, nothing matters if you don't advertise it! If GM would just drop a little marketing money on the F-body, I'd put money that we'd see the continuation of the fourth gen or a debut of the fifth gen in the near future.
07-14-2002, 02:38 AM
#41
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jrp4uc:
He couldn't find one because they were all rusted out sitting in trailer parks and backyards. The Third gens established the whole mullet and gold chains reputation that haunted the Fourth gens' sales and image.
And since when are all cars with curved lines imports? So the C5 looks like an import? I'd take a C5 over a C4 anyday. To say straight lines = muscle cars is ridiculous. What do you think all of the cars looked like at the time? And the Chrysler front end? Ok, so for half of its life it had a front end treatment that was less popular. The first 5 years it was a sleeked back version of the Third gen. What about the front end update of the Firebirds? That doesn't scream muscle car?
It's ignorant to overlook the Fourth gen existed under different circumstances. Besides, I remember the Mustang 5.0 as being the hero of that era; not the Third gen. Oh well, "It's Really Only a Camaro" (with leaky T-tops no less) and maybe that's why Third gen guys are so defensive.</font>
He couldn't find one because they were all rusted out sitting in trailer parks and backyards. The Third gens established the whole mullet and gold chains reputation that haunted the Fourth gens' sales and image.
And since when are all cars with curved lines imports? So the C5 looks like an import? I'd take a C5 over a C4 anyday. To say straight lines = muscle cars is ridiculous. What do you think all of the cars looked like at the time? And the Chrysler front end? Ok, so for half of its life it had a front end treatment that was less popular. The first 5 years it was a sleeked back version of the Third gen. What about the front end update of the Firebirds? That doesn't scream muscle car?
It's ignorant to overlook the Fourth gen existed under different circumstances. Besides, I remember the Mustang 5.0 as being the hero of that era; not the Third gen. Oh well, "It's Really Only a Camaro" (with leaky T-tops no less) and maybe that's why Third gen guys are so defensive.
</font>
No, thats not why he couldn't find 1. Does every post you make have to be a bunch of incorrect BS?? 2nd Gens started that whole thing and as said before that wasn't thought about Thirds. And nothing ever affected their sales. That is the way it goes when cars in general get cheap. But that changes. The 4th Gen took out the 4th Gen and nothing else. I don't wanna hear that advertising BS, its a stupid excuse, like all the others. Those cars could run 11's stock and still no1 would buy them. Yes some lines and aggressive looks do say musclecar. Look at the M*****g today. 5.0 being fastest?? Ever hear of the L98?? The only years the M*****g could say that over that L98 is 87 and 88 and thats ONLY against the 5-Speeds. 89-92 was a where the tables turned to the F-Body completely. Wanna talk about who handled better, braked better, built better, and sold better also?? Wanna see if me or my friends T-Tops leak?? On the defensive, it seems more like the 4th Gens are on the defensive here. Hiatus makers.
And like I said, it might be different in different places, but, most Thirds right now are owned by younger people that either just like them or want a cool car and have no interest in going to car shows and cruise nights with them. There are alot of dudes with great Thirds around here, they just don't wanna go because they just aren't interested in it. [This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 14, 2002).]
07-14-2002, 10:45 AM
#43
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
No, thats not why he couldn't find 1. Does every post you make have to be a bunch of incorrect BS?? 2nd Gens started that whole thing and as said before that wasn't thought about Thirds. And nothing ever affected their sales. That is the way it goes when cars in general get cheap. But that changes. The 4th Gen took out the 4th Gen and nothing else. I don't wanna hear that advertising BS, its a stupid excuse, like all the others. Those cars could run 11's stock and still no1 would buy them. Yes some lines and aggressive looks do say musclecar. Look at the M*****g today. 5.0 being fastest?? Ever hear of the L98?? The only years the M*****g could say that over that L98 is 87 and 88 and thats ONLY against the 5-Speeds. 89-92 was a where the tables turned to the F-Body completely. Wanna talk about who handled better, braked better, built better, and sold better also?? Wanna see if me or my friends T-Tops leak?? On the defensive, it seems more like the 4th Gens are on the defensive here. Hiatus makers. And like I said, it might be different in different places, but, most Thirds right now are owned by younger people that either just like them or want a cool car and have no interest in going to car shows and cruise nights with them. There are alot of dudes with great Thirds around here, they just don't wanna go because they just aren't interested in it.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 14, 2002).]</font>
No, thats not why he couldn't find 1. Does every post you make have to be a bunch of incorrect BS?? 2nd Gens started that whole thing and as said before that wasn't thought about Thirds. And nothing ever affected their sales. That is the way it goes when cars in general get cheap. But that changes. The 4th Gen took out the 4th Gen and nothing else. I don't wanna hear that advertising BS, its a stupid excuse, like all the others. Those cars could run 11's stock and still no1 would buy them. Yes some lines and aggressive looks do say musclecar. Look at the M*****g today. 5.0 being fastest?? Ever hear of the L98?? The only years the M*****g could say that over that L98 is 87 and 88 and thats ONLY against the 5-Speeds. 89-92 was a where the tables turned to the F-Body completely. Wanna talk about who handled better, braked better, built better, and sold better also?? Wanna see if me or my friends T-Tops leak?? On the defensive, it seems more like the 4th Gens are on the defensive here. Hiatus makers.
And like I said, it might be different in different places, but, most Thirds right now are owned by younger people that either just like them or want a cool car and have no interest in going to car shows and cruise nights with them. There are alot of dudes with great Thirds around here, they just don't wanna go because they just aren't interested in it. [This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 14, 2002).]</font>
I was going to step back, cuz I thought I had pushed my point out there, but I'm gonna come back at you and raise a BS Flag here.
Liek I said before, I have owned a 3rd gen and a 4th gen. I have ridden in MANY of each.
Now, if you are telling me that you AND your friend have NEVER had a T-Top leak in your 3rd gens, you are just flat out lying.
They leaked A LOT.
My 4th gen will get the occasional drip, but nothing major at all... the 4th Gen T-Top seals are light years ahead of the 3rd gen seals.
We can go back and forth over the 3rd vs 4th gen thing, and say what you will but the 4th gen imroved on EVERYTHING the 3rd gen was, except for the rear axle/suspension (same), the floor pans (same) and I won't say it improved on the looks, because that is subjective.
I like the 3rd gen looks myself, but I, personally, think the 4th gen looks great too.
I don't know that there has ever been an UGLIER Camaro (IMO) that the 1982-1987 base Camaro. The one with the 3 nostrils in the front facia, the one with no ground effects and bad steel wheels... etc.
07-14-2002, 11:12 AM
#44
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I reiterate:
I don't know how Camaros got labelled as mullet mobiles,especially 3rdgens,when everyone who had that hairstyle back then drove other cars.As far as people calling 3rdgens mullet mobiles,I only hear it from this site.I may have made fun of the 4th gens Camaros' styling but it doesn't mean that I don't like them.I just think that they lost that Camaro look with the sleek appearance.Had they added ground efx,there are good ones,the appearance would have been greatly approved.Also the fat A$$ rear body didn't help either.I think that a lot of people who were or weren't Camaro enthusiasts were shunned away with the 4thgen Camaros int/ext look/quality,the engine bay and the high prices.No advertising didn't help either but I don't recall many 3rdgen TV advertising either back then.The only thing that 4thgens have over 3rds is the LS1 and better brakes.The Camaro started out as a cheap affordable performance car for the masses,not anymore.
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1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)
ZEE/28
I don't know how Camaros got labelled as mullet mobiles,especially 3rdgens,when everyone who had that hairstyle back then drove other cars.As far as people calling 3rdgens mullet mobiles,I only hear it from this site.I may have made fun of the 4th gens Camaros' styling but it doesn't mean that I don't like them.I just think that they lost that Camaro look with the sleek appearance.Had they added ground efx,there are good ones,the appearance would have been greatly approved.Also the fat A$$ rear body didn't help either.I think that a lot of people who were or weren't Camaro enthusiasts were shunned away with the 4thgen Camaros int/ext look/quality,the engine bay and the high prices.No advertising didn't help either but I don't recall many 3rdgen TV advertising either back then.The only thing that 4thgens have over 3rds is the LS1 and better brakes.The Camaro started out as a cheap affordable performance car for the masses,not anymore.
------------------
1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)
ZEE/28
07-14-2002, 11:18 AM
#45
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
I don't know that there has ever been an UGLIER Camaro (IMO) that the 1982-1987 base Camaro. The one with the 3 nostrils in the front facia, the one with no ground effects and bad steel wheels... etc.
</font>
I don't know that there has ever been an UGLIER Camaro (IMO) that the 1982-1987 base Camaro. The one with the 3 nostrils in the front facia, the one with no ground effects and bad steel wheels... etc.
</font>
When the 3rd gens came out, their styling absolutely...positively...blew people away. I'm not just talking about a narrow (or narrow-minded) group of enthusiasts. I'm talking everyone..including the press. Some called them the most beautiful cars to come out of Detroit in decades.
They certainly weren't perfect...but they were sooo much better than their predecessors...that people couldn't buy them fast enough.
Their handling was so far beyond the 2nd gen or any direct competitors that people like **** Gulstrand called the '82 Z/28.."the American Ferrari".
One thing for sure...especially when some horsepower came online....they were a great image car for Chevy...so I don't know where this "mullet" stereotype argument comes from.
Now don't you 4th gen guys think that it is getting silly to compare your better T-tops and headliners...to a T*W*E*N*T*Y year old car and really be making a point?
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited July 14, 2002).]