formula79

I see a lot of worrying that the gas crunch will kill the performance car craze we have going. I am actually starting to think it may help it. For the last 10 years, large SUV's have been the 800 lb Gorrilla in the room with huge sales and profit. From what I can tell they are also the first (and only) noticable segment to take a hit with the rise in gass prices. You do not see Ford complaining about Mustang sales, or Chrysler complaining about LX sales falling off drastically.

More than gas prices and out of pocket costs, I think many people are starting to maybe feel like owning a large SUV unless you have a need for it is irresponsible. One thing to realize is that most of the growth in the SUV segment was because they became an "in" thing. Minivan's could do almost anything a family needed, but they simply became uncool. Instead, people spend much more money on medium to large BOF SUV's that had a cooler image. Now what you are seeing is people moving back to small/unibody SUV's such as the CRV, Enclave, etc...which are nothing more than glorified, modern dany minivans. What funny, is most of these SUV's are not that much more efficiant than say a new Tahoe (with DOD). I know the CRV may have a nice EPA rating...but by the time you flog the gutless 4 cylinder to get it to do what you need, it is making no where near those numbers. A Tahoe requires a lot less flogging to get around, and has DOD, so it is a 4 cylinder when it needs to be.

What I am saying is, maybe the American buying public is skipping large SUV's now because they simply not cool to be seen in anymore. I think people may feel they would be viewed as irresponsible and wasteful driving one. The reason I make this point is that it goes hand and hand with GuionM's argument that muscle cars died in the 70's not because of gas prices or the EPA, but because people viewed them as wasteful, and immature. The only segment to see 70's style losses during this latest gas crunch is SUV's. Meanwhile I have yet to hear anyone refer to one of the modern muscle cars out there as gas hogging, or uncool (outside of doom and gloom greenies). It is common knowlege now that you can get decent gas mileage out of pretty much any properly geared V8 performance car. It will only get better as you have more cars come out with DOD and 6 speed automatics. The G8 will likely get very similar mileage to a V6 Accord or Camry when it is all said and done. Even with the current high gas prices, the number of performance cars offered by the OEM's continues to grow (while vehicles like the BOF Trailblazer will likely be axed).

One other thing to think about is...performance car/coupe sales tanked because of the "SUV is cool" boom. With that market now in the ****ter, maybe the coupe/performance market could actually grow as those people look for other "cool/personality" vehicles? With people not spending $40-50K on SUV's, maybe more people buy sports cars (as second or third cars) in stead of SUV's as their "cool" vehicles.

mastrdrver

While I think you may be on to something, large BOF SUVs get a LOT better mileage than the crossovers are getting. You can easily pull off 20mpg in a Acadia, but drive a Yukon and you'll likely see mid teens for mileage. Mileage might be helped with 6spd autos in BOF SUVs, but the problem they have is they are high off the ground, relatively, and have a blunt nose. Neither of which helps mileage, while the crossovers have more of a sleek style to them and more than likely helps the aerodynamics of the vehicle. Also note that it takes less power to move the large GM crossovers than their SUVs.

formula79

Yeah...but I do not think that most people who can afford a $40-50K SUV are gonna worry about 3-4mpg less. I think it is more a vain thing...you just look wasteful driving one. WIW, We regularlly got over 20 mpg on the highway in our Avalanche..which equaled our old Equinox. The new GMT-900's are relativly good on gas.

mastrdrver

But how much city driving did you do? Also, I would bet that the crossovers are much more forgiving to aggressive driving, which I'm sure the majority of drivers are involved in when driving their vehicle. That is where you get in trouble with the V8s and SUVs. I'm sure just about anybody can attest to that who have had any find of f-body or mustang. You get good mileage as long as you keep your foot out of the gas...but how much fun it that? I think you get anyway with that with the crossovers since the V6s don't have the get up and go like the V8s in the SUVs do.

crYnOid

Something I found interesting, that was reported a while back in Australia, was the % of Commodores being sold with a V8. The large car market in Australia is shrinking but the % of V8 sold is going up! Something like 25% of VE Commodores are V8s and this is the highest % of V8 for something like 20 years.

It seems that people who would normally buy the V6 are downsizing to smaller 4cyl cars while people who normally buy the V8 don't care about the cost of fuel and are buying them anyway.

formula79

My wife had a 4 cylinder RAV4 she got terrible milage in because she had to push it hard in basic highway driving. She noticed no milage loss going to the Trailblazer we got after it. She was driving into Baltimore City every day at the time. Either way...if someone can afford a $40-5K truckk...they may bitch about gas...but it is not a major issue to them. My main point is people are not ditching BOF SUV's because they get bad gas milage, or suck (new Explorer is nice, and selling bad). They are not buying these SUV's because they are not a cool as they were 2-4 years ago. High gas prices make them wasteful for your average family, and even if you can afford one+ gas...you look wasteful driving it. Either way, the BOF SUV will be the casualty of this gas/EPA crunch...not the modern muscle car.

SSbaby

The biggest hit to vehicle ownership costs is depreciation, not fuel cost. However, the public are very sensitive to variable fuel prices. Therefore, I sometimes have trouble understanding why current V8 owners downsize to something smaller... and are prepared to lose $$$ in the trade in.

Btw, today's V8s are far more fuel efficient than yesteryear's muscle cars. V8 sales should remain relatively strong in spite of expected high oil prices for the foreseeable term. If there is any good to come out of high fuel prices, it would be that manufacturers invest more in technology (VVT, DI, twin spark plugs, etc...) in their V8s to cut fuel consumption. I wonder if this technology infusion is what Lutz was referring to when responding to the government's proposed tougher fuel bill?

camaro_guy_z28

I don't think the suv market will die, it will slim down some though. I just can't see buying one of these dinky little rav 4's crv's escapes etc etc i'm not saving enough gas to justify buying one of these little things. I get almost the same gas mileage in my explorer and i actually have room in it and can tow more than a gallon of milk. I tried to explain this to my father in law, he buys these tiny little 4cy cars, when he could of got a mid size car and only lost 1 or 2mpg.

Bob Cosby

I sold my Expy and bought a 2.3L 5-speed Ranger (actually a Ranger disguised as a Mazda). No more mpg problems.

Doesn't exactly do hills well though. LOL.

Oh, and Brandon....interesting train of thought there. You might be onto something.

DAKMOR

That's a short good read. Kudos to you.

Perhaps we should have a blog here written by the members, something to increase the site a little. JasonD, if you are watching through your crystal ball, please, hear those words.

Sharker524

The Explorer is going unibody in its next redesign. That's one.

OutsiderIROC-Z

It is an interesting read.

Eric Bryant

I don't think that full-size BOF SUVs will "die", any more than their pickup-truck brethren will. SUVs have completely legitimate uses, and some folks frankly need such a vehicle. Both, though, will continue to see a serious shrink in market share as concern over fuel prices begins to outweigh the "fashion" of driving such a vehicle (and how it ever became fashionable to drive a pickup or SUV is a topic for mental gymnastics in another thread). I think that the sales numbers for full-size vans are a decent indicator of where SUVs will eventually end up.

jkipp84

I think the SUVs may still have some legs left...

I wouldn't mind moving up to the new Saab 9-7X Aero with the LS2: http://www.leftlanenews.com/saab-int...9-7x-aero.html

Gas would suck... but that thing looks to be pretty sweet

formula79

I agree they will not die just like the Muscle car did not 100% die. Vehicles like the Suburban will always be around. I just think you will see many less soccer moms driving them. However I think performance cars will benefit from this shift. Most people put some kind of emotion in to at least one of their vehicle purchases. That is why it is not uncommon to see a Tahoe in the driveway next to the boring Camry or Accord.