Hydrogen powered cars by 2010-2015

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Mar 4, 2006 | 10:27 AM

#16

RussStang

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Joined: Aug 2003

Posts: 3,011

From: Exton, Pennsylvania

Re: Hydrogen powered cars by 2010-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrome383Z

I want a warp drive with a Flux Capacitor in my car. C'mon GM, do it!

Watch out 88 mph.

Mar 4, 2006 | 01:16 PM

#17

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

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Joined: Dec 2001

Posts: 1,531

Re: Hydrogen powered cars by 2010-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussStang

Watch out 88 mph.

Where's my Mr. Fusion?!?

Extraction and storage costs seem to be the limiting factors on Hydrogen right now. If we used nuclear power to extract it, how many more power plants would we have to have to satisfy our energy needs.

Mar 4, 2006 | 01:55 PM

#18

HAZ-Matt

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Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 4,000

From: TX Med Ctr

Re: Hydrogen powered cars by 2010-2015

I dunno, is there a limit to the number of reactors you can have per plant?

Mar 4, 2006 | 06:55 PM

#19

morb|d

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Joined: Nov 2000

Posts: 1,440

From: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine

Re: Hydrogen powered cars by 2010-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me

I think they are storing H2 which has a net charge of 0 instead of anions and cations. H2 does occur naturally but due to its low mass it simply rises out of the atmosphere. Now lets say you find a way to store H2 without risk of explosion OR leakage, like with a medium in the 'tank.' The tank has a metal lattice structure in it so the partial charge on the polar H2 has something to form partial bonds to. That means it is safe to store AND will be safe in an accident. Sounds good to me.

As great as what you are saying sounds "on paper," I would think that pretty much any gas, even as benign as plain air (O2, N2, etc), would have a hard time being safe in an accident if compressed and held to 8000PSI. Even assuming the inner parts of the vehicle frame itself are used as a storage "tank." If there is even the slightest damage, the gas will expell sooner or later. And probably with violent force. Which is not good for either occupent safety or their insurance premiums.

Quote:

Now lets say you can take and use a special filter, maybe it is chemical or something, that pulls only O2 and O3 out of the atmosphere, O3 being ozone which is more than plentiful in cities with lots of smog. You simply channel the O2 and O3 into your fuel cell where it combines with H2 to form H2O or H3O+ either way it is less harmful than NH3+ and other emissions that we spew into our atmosphere every day. The electricity produced by this powers electric motors, same way that an electric car is powered.

So really what you are looking at is what is a better storage medium? Chemical or Hydrogen. Obviously GM knows something we don't about how Hydrogen because they have invested TONS of money, even now, into Hydrgen and its future.

There is no doubt in my mind that people working on Hydrogen projects are anything less than brilliant and that they've invented countless clever ways to get around major problems. But the point still remains, that it's an energy storage medium and not a source. And as such it can't be seriously considered until/unless there is a "renewable" and "clean" energy source to power it. Realistically, the energy that must be used to "charge" the hydrogen medium would STILL likely come from a "dirty" source and in the process would consume more energy than ever before to get us the same result. In other words hydrogen, is just an extra stage between energy source and final power delivery; which only reduces the energy efficiency ratio (probably far below that of IC).

E85 on the other hand, being based on crops, is "charged" by the boundless energy of the sun. "Dirty" energy input makes up a fraction and is used only at conversion, which over time will improve in efficiency.

Quote:

To be truthful I don't know which is better and I don't think my opinion really matters at all. What matters is that GM is thinking outside the box and has shown off things that other manufacturers were totally caught off guard about, the skateboard storage and fuel cell system being the biggest. That is what matters to me because GM is taking a chance and doing something different which they feel will really pay off for them in the long run.

It's important to keep in mind that GM isn't the first to do so. BMW has had a prototype for years. Honda showed off their project car about a year ago as well. Considering GM only recently joined with their "proof of concept," and the fact that they are TRUCKS, doesn't seem to me to indicate that they are as far along with hydrogen as the others. Despite the money they've sunk into it.

Last edited by morb|d; Mar 4, 2006 at 06:59 PM.