Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Thread Starter
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
From TCC.....
Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Hybrid advocates trumpet the environmental benefits of the gas-electric vehicles. But a new study says that the overall energy picture for hybrid vehicles isn't as favorable as it seems. CNW Marketing Research, of Bandon, Ore., says that when the total cost of hybrids to the environment is calculated, including factors like recycling batteries into a "dollars per lifetime mile" figure, hybrids come up short against gas-powered vehicles. CNW's energy cost per mile driven figured that the most "energy expensive" vehicle from 2005 is the Maybach at $11.58 per mile, while the Scion xB checks in at the bottom of the scale, at $0.48 a mile. Some hybrids, like the Honda Accord Hybrid, actually get higher lifetime costs than their gas counterparts: the Hybrid Accord has an energy cost per mile of $3.29 while the gas version's is $2.18. CNW accounts for the differences by citing the investments in lightweight materials along with the cost of recycling batteries. The auto industry as a whole, CNW says, has an average dollar per lifetime mile of $2.28; GM's HUMMER H3's figure was $1.949 per mile, lower than the Honda Civic at $2.42 a mile. "If a consumer is concerned about fuel economy because of family budgets or depleting oil supplies, it is perfectly logical to consider buying high-fuel-economy vehicles," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research, Inc. "But if the concern is the broader issues such as environmental impact of energy usage, some high-mileage vehicles actually cost society more than conventional or even larger models over their lifetime."
Hybrid advocates trumpet the environmental benefits of the gas-electric vehicles. But a new study says that the overall energy picture for hybrid vehicles isn't as favorable as it seems. CNW Marketing Research, of Bandon, Ore., says that when the total cost of hybrids to the environment is calculated, including factors like recycling batteries into a "dollars per lifetime mile" figure, hybrids come up short against gas-powered vehicles. CNW's energy cost per mile driven figured that the most "energy expensive" vehicle from 2005 is the Maybach at $11.58 per mile, while the Scion xB checks in at the bottom of the scale, at $0.48 a mile. Some hybrids, like the Honda Accord Hybrid, actually get higher lifetime costs than their gas counterparts: the Hybrid Accord has an energy cost per mile of $3.29 while the gas version's is $2.18. CNW accounts for the differences by citing the investments in lightweight materials along with the cost of recycling batteries. The auto industry as a whole, CNW says, has an average dollar per lifetime mile of $2.28; GM's HUMMER H3's figure was $1.949 per mile, lower than the Honda Civic at $2.42 a mile. "If a consumer is concerned about fuel economy because of family budgets or depleting oil supplies, it is perfectly logical to consider buying high-fuel-economy vehicles," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research, Inc. "But if the concern is the broader issues such as environmental impact of energy usage, some high-mileage vehicles actually cost society more than conventional or even larger models over their lifetime."
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,381
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
honestly i think its kinda funny, ironic, but most of all sad (yes funny and sad at the same time). i wonder how much media attention this is going to get? my guess... none
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,011
From: Exton, Pennsylvania
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Originally Posted by HAZ-Matt
It's a shame that it took someone this long to do the numbers.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
While I do like the end result of this study, and I have no doubt that hybrid vehicles are an unnecessary "feel-good fad", I have to wonder how they arrive at these numbers. Are they really saying it costs less to operate a Hummer H3 than a Honda Civic? Errrrm....hmmm......
Exposed Member
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 647
From: Dangerously close to Detroit
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Pay no attention to the fact that the study was prolly funded by Exxon-Mobil. 
Besides, everyone knows that hybrids are the leading cause of smug.
Besides, everyone knows that hybrids are the leading cause of smug.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Let's not also lose sight of the fact we are really only in the infacy stage of hybrid powertrains. The very first cars had a lot of shortfalls compared to horses way back when......
Thread Starter
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
While I do like the end result of this study, and I have no doubt that hybrid vehicles are an unnecessary "feel-good fad", I have to wonder how they arrive at these numbers. Are they really saying it costs less to operate a Hummer H3 than a Honda Civic? Errrrm....hmmm......
I read that the Hummer costs less....when ALL factors, including the initial cost, recycling costs of the batteries, maintenance, etc..... are factored in.
Hybrids are only a "feel good" product at this point.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
While I do like the end result of this study, and I have no doubt that hybrid vehicles are an unnecessary "feel-good fad", I have to wonder how they arrive at these numbers. Are they really saying it costs less to operate a Hummer H3 than a Honda Civic? Errrrm....hmmm......
It is kind of like how most solar cells cost more in electric/energy to manufactor than they will generate in there lifetime.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 86
From: Abbotsford, British Columbia
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
This is from their press release, it may help explain their conclusions;
"CNW Marketing Research Inc. spent two years collecting data on the energy necessary to plan, build, sell, drive and dispose of a vehicle from initial concept to scrappage. This includes such minutia as plant to dealer fuel costs, employee driving distances, electricity usage per pound of material used in each vehicle and literally hundreds of other variables.
To put the data into understandable terms for consumers, it was translated into a “dollars per lifetime mile” figure. That is, the Energy Cost per mile driven.
............................................
One of the reasons hybrids cost more than non-hybrids is the manufacture, replacement and disposal of such items as batteries, electric motors (in addition to the conventional engine), lighter weight materials and complexity of the power package.
And while many consumers and environmentalists have targeted sport utility vehicles because of their lower fuel economy and/or perceived inefficiency as a means of transportation, the energy cost per mile shows at least some of that disdain is misplaced.
For example, while the industry average of all vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2005 was $2.28 cents per mile, the Hummer H3 (among most SUVs) was only $1.949 cents per mile. That figure is also lower than all currently offered hybrids and Honda Civic at $2.42 per mile."
"CNW Marketing Research Inc. spent two years collecting data on the energy necessary to plan, build, sell, drive and dispose of a vehicle from initial concept to scrappage. This includes such minutia as plant to dealer fuel costs, employee driving distances, electricity usage per pound of material used in each vehicle and literally hundreds of other variables.
To put the data into understandable terms for consumers, it was translated into a “dollars per lifetime mile” figure. That is, the Energy Cost per mile driven.
............................................
One of the reasons hybrids cost more than non-hybrids is the manufacture, replacement and disposal of such items as batteries, electric motors (in addition to the conventional engine), lighter weight materials and complexity of the power package.
And while many consumers and environmentalists have targeted sport utility vehicles because of their lower fuel economy and/or perceived inefficiency as a means of transportation, the energy cost per mile shows at least some of that disdain is misplaced.
For example, while the industry average of all vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2005 was $2.28 cents per mile, the Hummer H3 (among most SUVs) was only $1.949 cents per mile. That figure is also lower than all currently offered hybrids and Honda Civic at $2.42 per mile."
Last edited by Jono; Apr 7, 2006 at 01:45 PM.
Thread Starter
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Not to mention the depreciation...who wants to buy a used hybrid with it's extremely expensive parts and disposal costs? Add to that the technology will be "yesterday's news" too.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Originally Posted by cASe SenSiTive
Pay no attention to the fact that the study was prolly funded by Exxon-Mobil.
Besides, everyone knows that hybrids are the leading cause of smug.
Besides, everyone knows that hybrids are the leading cause of smug.
Back to Doug's post, all this info isn't really news to the average car guy.
What we really need is a story like this to wind up in Time or Newsweek, not TCC, MT, or C&D.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
Originally Posted by Z28x
It is kind of like how most solar cells cost more in electric/energy to manufactor than they will generate in there lifetime.
Regarding the article, it just doesn't add up in my brain for some reason. I'm no fan of hybrids to be sure, but with the hundreds of variables involved (how far plant employees drive to work?
), there's just too much room for skewing the results. And as noted above, hybrids are still in their relative infancy so their design, development, and manufacture are still on the steep part of the learning curve and will continue to get more efficient. Many of their technologies can also help spill over and make regular vehicles better too.
Exposed Member
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 647
From: Dangerously close to Detroit
Re: Hybrids Lose Lifetime Energy Battle, Study Says
The H3's costs are likely defrained because of the huge volume of Colorado/Canyons that are around running the same chassis. Obviously the development costs end up being far more spread out.
It costs more right now to produce a hybrid because there isn't as much volume. The results end up skewed because of that.
It costs more right now to produce a hybrid because there isn't as much volume. The results end up skewed because of that.
