*cough*Hindenberg*cough*

 

what about hydrogen fuel cell powered cars like GM was developing? although id rather stay with ICE's for as long as possible

 

Nuclear Power.

You just have to get the tree-huggers to realize that on a global scale, nuclear power is MUCH cleaner than any form of combustion.

Of course, I'd say that getting them to accept that would be a bigger challenge than the R&D necessary to build the entire hydrogen infrastructure from scratch...

 

I believe the company that is doing Fords Hydrogen Fuel Cell research and development is Ballard Power Systems. They would be who you want to invest in, although I believe Ford now owns 51% of BLDP. Basically, for the next 10 years BLDP will be doing R&D exclusively for Ford and I think Chrysler. They are a relatively small company but some of there R&D is impressive. I believe one of there designs is to store the Hydrogen in liquid form, then it is converted to a gasious form as it enters the Hydrogen fuel cell. This makes the hydrogen a lot safer as it is not as volatile in liquid form, which is how it is stored, just like a gas tank. Something like that anyways, its been a while since I researched this stuff.


The engineering facutly at Clemson think hydrogen fuel cell cars will happen in our life time and I disagreed with them for the reasons stated earlier by some and the fact that our country loves oil and will be very resistant to change because too many people make too much money off of it. Some of the faculty also told me that hydrogen powered or hydrogen fuel cell powered cars (cant remember) are already being used in England and they are all you see when you get off the plane at the airport. I believe they are Mercedes'. So who they heck knows, I will be keeping an eye on the hydrogen boys, heres a good list to wathc Proud:

Ballard Power Systems (BLDP)
FuelCell Energy (FCEL)
Millenium Cell (MCEL)
Plug Power (PLUG)

Interestingly enough, every single one of those is up today!!! I think BLDP and FCEL are they way to go, IMO!

Check out Varco Intl (VRC) too. I bought it a little over a month ago and it has gone up $5.50 a share since then and will be merging with National Oilwell (NOI) in the near future and the new company will essentially control 60% of the oil drilling market!

 

Actually Charles Gray is the person leading the hydrogen R&D at Ford right now.

But like others have said, this is beyond old news...

If indeed hydrogen is a stepping stone, it would take decades, if not more than a century, to take that next step if we do go ahead and implement a hydrogen infrastructure. The costs will be devastating and will take years to set up, and then a decade or so to saturate the market with enough fuel cell vehicles to actually take advantage of the new system. It will be just like how dependant we've grown on Internal Combustion.

Although I agree that hydrogen is probably a stepping stone, I disagree that hydrogen is the way to go right now (my mind changes on this almost every week). With new battery technology being invented everyday, and the new generation of NiMH on the way (much cleaner, more storage than regular ones we have now in hybrids) and more and more after that, I have to think that hybrids are the way to go right now. We'll save hundreds of billions, if not trillions of $$$ this way rather than switching our entire economy around.

That aside....the good thing about hydrogen right now is that almost all of our vehicles being made today can be switched to hydrogen vehicles almost overnight (its not quite as simple as just emptying out your gas tank and filling it up with hydrogen, but its close enough) and the hardest part about making a hydrogen car has alreaddy been overcome (storing the hydrogen... can you imagine a 10,000 PSI hydrogen tank blowing up behind your back seat? ) so we're readdy to go if someone gives the green light.

I dunno...I am on the bubble on this matter. If indeed this is a stepping stone and we end up finding out a way to use anti-matter or something for our vehicles within the next few decades, then we mine as well save our money and go with gas/electric vehicles until then.

 

Did nobody even see this ad?!?!

In fact, it is 2 pages - a whole spread.
I was shocked and actually impressed that they took the time and money to print this.
It clearly states that they are not only sure of the future of Hydrogen, they are banking on it, and they are working towards, "a whole generation of cars and trucks powered by hydrogen, where the only emission is water vapor."

Somebody look on pages 46 and 47 of November's MT, and tell me who's pushing for Hydrogen big-time...

If it's not here when I get back from Gary Indianan and Cincinnati Ohio on Sunday, I'll scan the ad and post it.

 

Nuclear is not renewable energy.

Did I miss something-- how was the storage dilemma solved? If you mean by storing it in liquid form, that's been in consideration for a long time. Problems include the wasted energy required to liquify hydrogen; and the fact that it naturally boils off when the car isn't even running, such that tanks must be vented and will eventually boil themselves dry if left long enough.

 

I do not know how to answer that. But I've read in a few articles that it has been solved, but the hard part is actually doing it cheaper because the way they've done it now would require some pretty expensive components (or something). I'm no expert on the matter so I don't want to give any false information.

 

Renewable energy is a pipe-dream. Solar will probably never mature to the point that it can be used on a huge scale, and tidal/geothermal is too localized to be seriously developed.

How anyone can dismiss a power source that can derive hundreds of thousands of megawatts from maybe 200 pounds of material is beyond me.

 

I agree totally. I think we should be building far more nuclear plants and retiring coal- and gas-fired generating plants. For once, the French have it right. But I was just pointing out that nuclear is not a renewable resource.

 

Why? There are many renewable energy sources that are very effective right now, they just cost too much to take advantage of on a commercial scale. So all we have to do is wait...I'm sure 3 gigahert personal computers were just a pipe-dream 30 years ago

 

Well Meca, heat transfer is pretty cut and dry. A solar panel cant ever have an absortivity higher than 1 or a transmissivity higher than 1. Even if it did somehow become possible to make this "ideal" solar panel in the future, its still not enough energy. There is a finite amount of solar energy that comes through our atmosphere and its not available long enough to really gain much power from it (cloudy days, rainy days, even in sunny days its about 6 hrs where you get enough energy to matter). Economically it costs too much money and takes up too much space to build. Think about fields and fields (acres and acres) full of giant infrastructure to hold these huge solar panels. That might get you enough power to say, heat a small neighborhood. The point is, there is only a fixed amount of energy available from the sun and that energy is not a substantial enough to replace nuclear reactors or coal and gas fired generating plants.

 

Ya...And perpetual motion is just around the corner.

 

And here's the next step...
a hydrogen fueling station.

For all of you who continue to claim that the fuel is too inefficient and too costly, I beg you to reconsider. Economy of scale will soon be at work here, and I think that Hydrogen is coming in a strong way.

 

I just read that article Proud. Very cool.