Hummer Quality Low, GM Executive Stupid, Hummer Buyers More So.
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Hummer Quality Low, GM Executive Stupid, Hummer Buyers More So.
It's Confirmed. SUV buyers are dumb. 
Oh well, at least Cadillac is doing better lately.
----------------------------
Hummer Fares Badly as J.D. Power Lists Poor Performers for First Time
The Wall Street Journal 05/07/03
author: Karen Lundegaard
The Hummer helped win the war in Iraq, but a civilian version may not be such a winner in your driveway.
For the first time, a closely watched quality survey by J.D. Power & Associates revealed some of the dogs of the auto industry as well as its stars. The Hummer had the worst quality of any brand. Owners who were involved in the survey criticized the $50,000 H2 for everything from poor mileage [DUH!!
] to lack of power. [It's 7,000lbs+ and slow? ]
The survey had a lesson for consumers: Money doesn't necessarily buy quality. Four of the five worst brands are considered luxury or premium brands.
J.D. Power ranks cars and trucks by the number of problems per 100 vehicles. At the bottom of this year's results: Hummer, the General Motors Corp. brand famous for its military inspired Hummer H2 mega-SUV, had a striking 225 problems per 100 vehicles. Ford Motor Co.'s Land Rover division scored 190 problems per 100 vehicles. Korean car maker Kia had a rate of 168 problems per 100 vehicles. And buyers of cute and ultra compact Mini cars reported 166 problems per 100 vehicles for Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's year-old brand. GM's Saab brand, meanwhile, had 160 problems per 100.
Despite those trouble spots, the top brands in America were luxury nameplates as well. Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s upscale division and perennial quality winner, performed best, with just 76 problems per 100. That's a 13% improvement over last year. Next was Cadillac, at 103, fueled by the successful launch of its CTS sedan.
Overall, the news from the survey was a mixed bag for consumers. After several years of marked improvement, the industry average was unchanged from the previous year at 133 problems per 100.
Most of the top auto makers all fared worse than last year, and all of the Big Three were below the industry average. Even leader Toyota's score worsened to 115 problems per 100. Honda Motor Co., hurt by the launch of its best-selling Accord, dropped from second place a year ago to fourth this year, as its score fell 11.5% to 126. Porsche AG improved 4% to finish second, ahead of BMW at 124. Nissan Motor Co., which had one of the worst performances among major auto makers a year ago because of problems with the launch of its redesigned Altima, improved by more than 11% this year. A major factor was the smooth launch of its new Murano sport-utility vehicle.
The survey is known as an initial quality study because it tabulates responses from 52,000 new vehicle buyers based on the first 90 days of ownership. It has become a sort of Oscars for quality in the U.S. automotive industry. Auto makers have been hinting at their results for weeks in an effort to build -- or lower -- expectations.
In the past, J.D. Power, which sells the results to the auto makers and charges them if they tout it in their advertising, only released results for the best brands. But bootleg versions of the survey often leaked out. This year, the firm decided to release more complete results itself.
As quality has improved over the years, the problems highlighted in the survey are less and less troublesome for consumers than the serious initial-quality problems of cars in the past. The complaints today often involve minor annoyances rather than major mechanical problems. This year's top complaints: Wind noise and fuel consumption.
Wind noise is now the hardy perennial of issues, said Joe Ivers, executive director of auto research at J.D. Power. It just crops up on most vehicles most years. Excessive fuel consumption jumped to the No. 2 spot this year because of higher gas prices, particularly affecting scores for the largest SUVs and trucks, Mr. Ivers said.
Indeed, both of those complaints felled Hummer's popular H2, the only vehicle included in Hummer's results (the H1 doesn't sell enough vehicles to be included). Lousy mileage was the top complaint among H2 owners, accounting for 22 of its problems. [Again, DUH!!
] Next was headlights that were aimed too high (19 problems and an issue GM has since fixed) and wind noise (12 problems). [From a car shaped like a box? Who woulda thought ]
Not all complaints were trivial, though. Consumers complained of lack of power from the engine [7,000lb+ car not fast?
] , a steering wheel that wasn't centered, an overactive automatic shifter, unusual suspension noises and exterior modeling coming loose.
There are a lot of details to be gotten right on that vehicle, Mr. Ivers said.
GM's top management was none too pleased with Hummer's performance. We are absolutely not happy with the results, said Gary Cowger, president of GM's North American operations.
Still, Mr. Cowger and executives at other top auto makers seemed at a loss with how to fix some of the complaints. On the H2's fuel economy, Mr. Cowger noted that he hoped the price of gasoline went down. [Oh, brilliant planning!!
] Mr. Ivers noted, though, that part of the issue is managing consumers' expectations, and Hummer is not required to include fuel economy (indeed, GM doesn't publish it though it says the vehicle averages about 11 miles per gallon) because the vehicle is too heavy to be subject to rules governing light trucks.
The auto makers take any consumer complaints very seriously. Mark Templin, a Lexus vice president who oversees customer satisfaction, said that the luxury brand has spent years reducing its wind noise to get the quietest cars in the industry. Now, complaints center more on consumer-education issues, he says, such as how to use the navigation system.
Mr. Cowger noted that GM continues to work on its acoustic packages. All our top problems are now around some kind of sound issue, he said.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group last year spent $3.7 million on a new wind tunnel that should help it improve wind noise and fuel economy.
Oh well, at least Cadillac is doing better lately.----------------------------
Hummer Fares Badly as J.D. Power Lists Poor Performers for First Time
The Wall Street Journal 05/07/03
author: Karen Lundegaard
The Hummer helped win the war in Iraq, but a civilian version may not be such a winner in your driveway.
For the first time, a closely watched quality survey by J.D. Power & Associates revealed some of the dogs of the auto industry as well as its stars. The Hummer had the worst quality of any brand. Owners who were involved in the survey criticized the $50,000 H2 for everything from poor mileage [DUH!!
] to lack of power. [It's 7,000lbs+ and slow? ] The survey had a lesson for consumers: Money doesn't necessarily buy quality. Four of the five worst brands are considered luxury or premium brands.
J.D. Power ranks cars and trucks by the number of problems per 100 vehicles. At the bottom of this year's results: Hummer, the General Motors Corp. brand famous for its military inspired Hummer H2 mega-SUV, had a striking 225 problems per 100 vehicles. Ford Motor Co.'s Land Rover division scored 190 problems per 100 vehicles. Korean car maker Kia had a rate of 168 problems per 100 vehicles. And buyers of cute and ultra compact Mini cars reported 166 problems per 100 vehicles for Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's year-old brand. GM's Saab brand, meanwhile, had 160 problems per 100.
Despite those trouble spots, the top brands in America were luxury nameplates as well. Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s upscale division and perennial quality winner, performed best, with just 76 problems per 100. That's a 13% improvement over last year. Next was Cadillac, at 103, fueled by the successful launch of its CTS sedan.
Overall, the news from the survey was a mixed bag for consumers. After several years of marked improvement, the industry average was unchanged from the previous year at 133 problems per 100.
Most of the top auto makers all fared worse than last year, and all of the Big Three were below the industry average. Even leader Toyota's score worsened to 115 problems per 100. Honda Motor Co., hurt by the launch of its best-selling Accord, dropped from second place a year ago to fourth this year, as its score fell 11.5% to 126. Porsche AG improved 4% to finish second, ahead of BMW at 124. Nissan Motor Co., which had one of the worst performances among major auto makers a year ago because of problems with the launch of its redesigned Altima, improved by more than 11% this year. A major factor was the smooth launch of its new Murano sport-utility vehicle.
The survey is known as an initial quality study because it tabulates responses from 52,000 new vehicle buyers based on the first 90 days of ownership. It has become a sort of Oscars for quality in the U.S. automotive industry. Auto makers have been hinting at their results for weeks in an effort to build -- or lower -- expectations.
In the past, J.D. Power, which sells the results to the auto makers and charges them if they tout it in their advertising, only released results for the best brands. But bootleg versions of the survey often leaked out. This year, the firm decided to release more complete results itself.
As quality has improved over the years, the problems highlighted in the survey are less and less troublesome for consumers than the serious initial-quality problems of cars in the past. The complaints today often involve minor annoyances rather than major mechanical problems. This year's top complaints: Wind noise and fuel consumption.
Wind noise is now the hardy perennial of issues, said Joe Ivers, executive director of auto research at J.D. Power. It just crops up on most vehicles most years. Excessive fuel consumption jumped to the No. 2 spot this year because of higher gas prices, particularly affecting scores for the largest SUVs and trucks, Mr. Ivers said.
Indeed, both of those complaints felled Hummer's popular H2, the only vehicle included in Hummer's results (the H1 doesn't sell enough vehicles to be included). Lousy mileage was the top complaint among H2 owners, accounting for 22 of its problems. [Again, DUH!!
] Next was headlights that were aimed too high (19 problems and an issue GM has since fixed) and wind noise (12 problems). [From a car shaped like a box? Who woulda thought ]Not all complaints were trivial, though. Consumers complained of lack of power from the engine [7,000lb+ car not fast?
] , a steering wheel that wasn't centered, an overactive automatic shifter, unusual suspension noises and exterior modeling coming loose. There are a lot of details to be gotten right on that vehicle, Mr. Ivers said.
GM's top management was none too pleased with Hummer's performance. We are absolutely not happy with the results, said Gary Cowger, president of GM's North American operations.
Still, Mr. Cowger and executives at other top auto makers seemed at a loss with how to fix some of the complaints. On the H2's fuel economy, Mr. Cowger noted that he hoped the price of gasoline went down. [Oh, brilliant planning!!
] Mr. Ivers noted, though, that part of the issue is managing consumers' expectations, and Hummer is not required to include fuel economy (indeed, GM doesn't publish it though it says the vehicle averages about 11 miles per gallon) because the vehicle is too heavy to be subject to rules governing light trucks. The auto makers take any consumer complaints very seriously. Mark Templin, a Lexus vice president who oversees customer satisfaction, said that the luxury brand has spent years reducing its wind noise to get the quietest cars in the industry. Now, complaints center more on consumer-education issues, he says, such as how to use the navigation system.
Mr. Cowger noted that GM continues to work on its acoustic packages. All our top problems are now around some kind of sound issue, he said.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group last year spent $3.7 million on a new wind tunnel that should help it improve wind noise and fuel economy.
Last edited by WERM; May 8, 2003 at 06:22 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,954
Re: Hummer Quality Low, GM Executive Stupid, Hummer Buyers More So.
Originally posted by WERM
It's Confirmed. SUV buyers are dumb. Oh well, at least Cadillac is doing better lately.
----------------------------
Excessive fuel consumption jumped to the No. 2 spot this year because of higher gas prices, particularly affecting scores for the largest SUVs and trucks, Mr. Ivers said.
Indeed, both of those complaints felled Hummer's popular H2, the only vehicle included in Hummer's results (the H1 doesn't sell enough vehicles to be included). Lousy mileage was the top complaint among H2 owners, accounting for 22 of its problems. [Again, DUH!!] Next was headlights that were aimed too high (19 problems and an issue GM has since fixed) and wind noise (12 problems). [From a car shaped like a box? Who woulda thought ]
Not all complaints were trivial, though. Consumers complained of lack of power from the engine [7,000lb+ car not fast? ] , a steering wheel that wasn't centered, an overactive automatic shifter, unusual suspension noises and exterior modeling coming loose.
It's Confirmed. SUV buyers are dumb.
Oh well, at least Cadillac is doing better lately.----------------------------
Excessive fuel consumption jumped to the No. 2 spot this year because of higher gas prices, particularly affecting scores for the largest SUVs and trucks, Mr. Ivers said.
Indeed, both of those complaints felled Hummer's popular H2, the only vehicle included in Hummer's results (the H1 doesn't sell enough vehicles to be included). Lousy mileage was the top complaint among H2 owners, accounting for 22 of its problems. [Again, DUH!!
] Next was headlights that were aimed too high (19 problems and an issue GM has since fixed) and wind noise (12 problems). [From a car shaped like a box? Who woulda thought ]Not all complaints were trivial, though. Consumers complained of lack of power from the engine [7,000lb+ car not fast?
] , a steering wheel that wasn't centered, an overactive automatic shifter, unusual suspension noises and exterior modeling coming loose. The two big complaints about fuel economy and wind noise are the biggest jokes, though. Sure, this vehicle needs a Duramax diesel option, but for rudimentary offroading the current powertrain is fine. Just looking at the thing, you knew it would have wind noise, something that I've lived with in older trucks for most of my life. If people want a Lexus, buy a Lexus. Just don't complain about how underpowered your LX470/Landcruiser is, and definately don't complain that you got hung up the first time it went offroad. (Since the old Landcruiser 80 died, the US version hasn't been much of an offroader, just a premium priced, but underpowered "Japanese Tahoe.")
I'd say kudos to GM for bringing out a genuine offroad vehicle, something that has reasonable approach and departure angles for a change. Once the market enthusism for the H2 dies back, I might even recommend it in terms of value. GM went out on a limb with this vehicle, and first year sales alone have justified the gamble.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
This link is for H2 owners who think the H2 needs more power
http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac6ltmagschum.asp
http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac6ltmagschum.asp
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 562
From: Mich.
Just another reason for me to laugh even harder at a H2 buyer.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
I don't think the H2 is ugly at all. It's a Hummer, and that is what a Hummer should look like. I respect it simply for the fact that this is no "poser" SUV....it is one of the few left on the market that can do some SERIOUS offroading.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by guess who
Just another reason for me to laugh even harder at a H2 buyer.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
Just another reason for me to laugh even harder at a H2 buyer.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
2)Says who, the biggest build quality issue was a misaligned head light, just because it isn't the same quallity as a Escalade doesn't mean it is poorly built.
3)show me another $50,000 SUV that gives you more for the money, there isn't any.
4) 316HP and 360 lbs./ft tq is low power???
don't tell that to any LT1 owners.5)What can I say... maybe Hummer will make the H3 a sleek bullit shaped SUV just for you
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Originally posted by guess who
Just another reason for me to laugh even harder at a H2 buyer.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
Just another reason for me to laugh even harder at a H2 buyer.
1-Its FUGLY
2-Poorly built
3-Lack of "look what ya get for your money"
4-Low power
5-Shoe box design.
It costs the buyer 10,000 for each of those options.
But they throw in big tires as standard equipment.
2-It's not poorly built, it likes to use gas.
3-I think you get a lot for your money
4-Power is not low, it's just hauling a lot of weight and is still faster than many SUV's
5-It's a Hummer!
HUMMER 
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Z28Wilson
I don't think the H2 is ugly at all. It's a Hummer, and that is what a Hummer should look like. I respect it simply for the fact that this is no "poser" SUV....it is one of the few left on the market that can do some SERIOUS offroading.
I don't think the H2 is ugly at all. It's a Hummer, and that is what a Hummer should look like. I respect it simply for the fact that this is no "poser" SUV....it is one of the few left on the market that can do some SERIOUS offroading.
When you say Hummer, you are probably referencing the civilian version of the U.S. military Humvee or more officially HMMWV (High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle), M998 Truck.
The H2 has nothing in common with the rugged off road military Humvee or civilian Hummer. The H2 is simply a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50K price tag.
Last edited by Z284ever; May 10, 2003 at 09:11 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Z284ever
When you say Hummer, you are probably referencing the civilian version of the U.S. military Humvee or more officially HMMWV (High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle), M998 Truck.
The H2 has nothing in common with the rugged off road military Humvee or civilian Hummer. The H2 is simply a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50K price tag.
When you say Hummer, you are probably referencing the civilian version of the U.S. military Humvee or more officially HMMWV (High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle), M998 Truck.
The H2 has nothing in common with the rugged off road military Humvee or civilian Hummer. The H2 is simply a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50K price tag.
H2 is the second most capable SUV on the market... second only to H1, yet much more road-friendly; but nonetheless, still a very capable (the 2nd most capable stock vs. stock).
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
The H2 is more than 'simply a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50k price tag"
The H2 is more than 'simply a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50k price tag"
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 562
From: Mich.
Originally posted by Z284ever
I'm open to learning new things. What makes the H2 more than a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50K price tag?
I'm open to learning new things. What makes the H2 more than a Chevy truck, with a funky body and a $50K price tag?
I hope he can muster up an answer for us.
I had said this once before,But this time I will change the wording a little bit.Take the "standard Equipment" and forget about it for a second while you read thiis post.
How much different will a Tahoe be from a H2 if Chevy put the H2 tires on it?(for offroading):blah: