Best factory performance ever, and the 4th also got rid of that mullet driver stereotype that the 3rd gens had.

 

....how'd they do that?

 

I guess my psyche is still traumatised from those '00 and up Z/28 wheels.

 

The 2nd Gen made that stupid image that like no1 still believes or thinks about. The Third Gens gave the F-Body class again and made them cool, like the 1sts.

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Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic.

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 29, 2002).]

 

Should GM not build a 5th gen car, I think 10 or 15 years from now, maybe sooner, car guys (and gals) will look back at the 4th gens and will see them in the same light that some currently see 3rd gens, 2nd gens and 1st gens: as a snapshot -- and a physical example -- of this point in automotive history. Some of us will have good memories of it, others won't.

When they were in production, I can't think of any 3rd gen car that was viewed (at the time) as being highly collectible (well, maybe the original 1LEs). That's not a jab or a flame against the 3rd gen cars, I love 'em. My point is that we won't know how history will treat the 4th gens for a while.

Arguably, there is nothing really distinctive about the 4th gens. Sure, the LS1 made a statement, but there is nothing special or unique about them. GM was happy to build as many as people would order. In time, some 4th gens might be worth something, or maybe they won't. Those who never get to experience the car will be the ones who write the final chapter on the 4th gens. As I see it, they'll be the ones buying, restoring, modifying, or forgetting them ...

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'99 SS #4414, 6-Spd, T-tops
B&M Ripper, SLP Shift ****, BMR STB PHR, GW SFCs
TA Diff Cover, MacEwen Overlays w/TransAm Bezel

 

It is so curious to me,to see all the controversy on this board regarding the GTO.

We have had heated debate regarding the GTO's styling, it's faithfulness to it's heritage, the fact that GM shouldn't have a free ride to give us mediocrity (for those who consider the GTO mediocre)......and yet I get the impression that some of us who are so opinionated about the GTO, are more than happy to give the 4th gen Camaro..the mother of all free rides.

....why is that?

And by taking such a position...are we setting ourselves up for GM to give us a 5th gen which is not much better?

 

Say what? If the 4th Gen wanted to be a "free ride," styling-wise it would've been the same angular, slight refreshening look of the 3rd Gen. GM pushed the styling envelope with the 4th Gen F-body...think about it...it's why you hate them so much. Free ride = BORING, CONSERVATIVE or almost unchanged. That isn't a 4th Gen. I can't think of a better example of an "against the grain" Camaro. Come to think of it, every gen Camaro since the 1st was a uniquely-styled car. Sometimes it works, sometimes I guess it doesn't.

As far as the 3rd Gen adding class...again I love the 3rd Gen, as I love all Camaros but the 3rd Gen Camaro has the biggest "mullet" reputation out there...just check a Stang or Import board for opinions.

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited June 30, 2002).]

 

My current TA is the longest I've ever owned a car. I bought it brand new back in 97", and I think I love it more now than when I did when I first bought it! I'm pretty sure this car will be with me for a very long time to come. Before this TA I had a black 92" Trans-Am GTA which I also bought brand new. I miss this car very dearly, and I swear that when I find the right one for sale, I will jump all over the chance to buy it! My point is, there are plenty of people besides me that really cherish the 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies, and will either restore them or take really good care of the ones they allready have. These cars are not neccessary about value, they're more of a personal passion! I personally think a well taken care of IROC or GTA has a timeless look, and I'm sure as time passes, many people will feel the same about some particular models of the current F-body! Damn! This is the longest post I've ever written. See, it's all about passion.

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BLACK 97' RAM-AIR TRANS-AM, DEEP TINT,
LINGENFELTER 383 LT4,
6 SPD. TRANNY, CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, SLP HEADERS, FLOWMASTER CAT-BACK, STOCK WS6 HIGH POLISHED WHEELS WITH THE REARS WIDENED TO 11 INCHES WEARING 315-35-17
G-FORCE TA's, 2 INCH SUSPENSION DROP VIA EIBACH SPRINGS AND KONI SHOCKS, HARDER DUROMETER BUSHINGS EVERYWHERE ON THE CAR, 4 PISTON BREMBO CALIPERS AND 13 INCH CROSSED-DRILLED ROTORS, DOUBLE DIAMOND SUB-FRAME CONNECTORS, LG MOTORSPORTS REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS, STRUT TOWER BRACE, TORQUE ARM, AND ADJUSTABLE PANHARD ROD

 

Personally, I've always thought the 4th gen cars sit to high! Dropping the suspension was one of my very 1st mods.



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BLACK 97' RAM-AIR TRANS-AM, DEEP TINT,
LINGENFELTER 383 LT4,
6 SPD. TRANNY, CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, SLP HEADERS, FLOWMASTER CAT-BACK, STOCK WS6 HIGH POLISHED WHEELS WITH THE REARS WIDENED TO 11 INCHES WEARING 315-35-17
G-FORCE TA's, 2 INCH SUSPENSION DROP VIA EIBACH SPRINGS AND KONI SHOCKS, HARDER DUROMETER BUSHINGS EVERYWHERE ON THE CAR, 4 PISTON BREMBO CALIPERS AND 13 INCH CROSSED-DRILLED ROTORS, DOUBLE DIAMOND SUB-FRAME CONNECTORS, LG MOTORSPORTS REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS, STRUT TOWER BRACE, TORQUE ARM, AND ADJUSTABLE PANHARD ROD

 

I don't have to ask any1. I don't think of any Gen like that, even the 4th, people that are smart enough don't, but the 2nd Gens started that and some of the early low model Thirds got carried in with them, that is pretty much done with. It depends where you are and who you associate with but here thinking that about any Gen is complete stupidity. Third IROC-Z's, Z28, some RS's TA's, Formulas, and GTA's were all cars that made a classy cool image for the F-Body.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 30, 2002).]

 

As for collectible and desirable cars, the 1st-Third Gens shine here alot more than the 4th. They had more models, engines, choices, and limited editions. Yeah the 4ths had some special cars, but not many and usually no1 pays much attention to the 4th's so its like people don't even know them when they see them.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 30, 2002).]

 

Another personal though on 4th gen styling...

I think the 4th gen Camaro rear end was VERY VERY unique! I can't think of another car that incorporated the rear spoiler into the body so well.

I think the spolier treatment on 4th gens is one of it's coolest styling features.

I also like the way the side mirrors blend into the fenders. I know Camaro wasn't the first to do this, it was the 1st gen Probe, but I think Camaro's flowed much better...

 

I don't know how Camaros got labelled as mullet mobiles,especially 3rdgens,when everyone who had that hairstyle back then drove other cars.As far as people calling 3rdgens mullet mobiles,I only hear it from this site.I may have made fun of the 4th gens Camaros' styling but it doesn't mean that I don't like them.I just think that they lost that Camaro look with the sleek appearance.Had they added ground efx,there are good ones,the appearance would have been greatly approved.Also the fat A$$ rear body didn't help either.I think that a lot of people who were or weren't Camaro enthusiasts were shunned away with the 4thgen Camaros int/ext look/quality,the engine bay and the high prices.No advertising didn't help either.

 

acura NSX had that spoiler first,chevy also stole the black roof.
the 4th generation f-body was the best of the breed,a perfect bookend to the first generation.as far as collectiblity goes,for their time,they offered class-leading performance for not alot of money with slightly exotic styling,what more do you need?people will be restoring and collecting these things for years to come,i know my garage is awaiting a '97 SS or LT1 trans am one day.

 

Good question.

Long term 20 plus years out, I think 4th gens will only be collected and restored by people that have owned and liked the looks of them when they were new.

A first second or third gen or multimake restorer 30 years from now will tend to shy away I think. IMO this will be due mostly to the cars period non-timeless non-classic stying.

In the big picture, most cars that are restored are done so cuz they are admired by a relatively large group of people across multiple age and economic groups. The car has a nice look too to it when other styles come and go.

Example: Lots of people of all ages like 69 Camaros, so there is a huge aftermarket of parts remanufacturers out there, and lots of cars getting restored, and lots of 69s changing hands, even after all this time.

I also think that long term 4th gen values and desirability will suffer due to composition of the SMC body panels. With age they only get even more wavy, and restorers like straight panels to shoot paint over of course.

I know that SMC horse trailers and semi trailers etc have terrible resale value due to the SMC being wavy and suffering from delamination with environmental exposure. So age will not be a friend to a 4th gens composite body panels and glued together construction either, IMO, but only time will tell that tale.

However I think LT1 and LS1 motors will be a hot item to strip from the cars once they are in the yard.

What will keep 4th gen demand and values constant in the near term however is the fact that there was no 5th gen sooner, now, or in the near future.

A 93 or 94 goes for double what a 3rd gen goes for used, due to that fact that a 94 looks pretty darn close to what a new one looks like. If the F5 had come out in 97 for example, not only would the Camaro have been saved, but values of 94s would be comparable to current 3rd gen 91s.

So I think demand and prices for 4th gens will stay strong for now, until the 5th gens are out on the street for a few years.


However, I will remember my first last and only 4th gen Z28 as a ponderous porker that had dubious looks, shiny interior, handling not as good as my thirdgen 1LE, a stupid automatic trans cuz of GM constraints on 6 speeds at the time, and a reoccuring problem in the electrical bus that made weird things happen, like the radio not working when I turned my lights on.

I too have been waiting for a 5th gen ever since I saw my first drawings and spy photos of the 4th gens.