How many here have less passion for GM and its products than "before"?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
)!
550i
6-speed automatic transmission with Steptronic AUD$162,400
550i with M Sport Package
6-speed automatic transmission with Steptronic AUD$165,400
6-speed automatic transmission with Steptronic AUD$162,400
550i with M Sport Package
6-speed automatic transmission with Steptronic AUD$165,400
It's a good thing I have self-control when it comes to cars.
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 781
From: Houston TX (Chicago/Evanston IL)
There are plenty of high dollar GM cars that I would drive in there current line up. (for Now) I just have fond memories of more affordable GM cars. Bring back the Grand nationalas (GNX), Syclones, Tyfoons, TTAs ect..
The absence of Camaro and the current state of GM led me to a FORD SHELBY GT500. I am in the market for a Camaro 2SS but delares are asking way to much over MSRP in the Houston area. My last visit to a chevy dealer had me leaving thinking GM and its dealers deserve what they age getting.....
At least I'll always have great classic GM cars to drive. Maybe I could find a nice TTA or Syclone....
The absence of Camaro and the current state of GM led me to a FORD SHELBY GT500. I am in the market for a Camaro 2SS but delares are asking way to much over MSRP in the Houston area. My last visit to a chevy dealer had me leaving thinking GM and its dealers deserve what they age getting.....
At least I'll always have great classic GM cars to drive. Maybe I could find a nice TTA or Syclone....
Last edited by Evil Turbo SS; May 13, 2009 at 11:48 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
The absence of Camaro and the current state of GM led me to a FORD SHELBY GT500. I am in the market for a Camaro 2SS but delares are asking way to much over MSRP in the Houston area. My last visit to a chevy dealer had me leaving thinking GM and its dealers deserve what they age getting.....
Did you actually offer to buy a car at MSRP? The asking price is almost never the selling price of a car.
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 781
From: Houston TX (Chicago/Evanston IL)
I understand dealers are acting on there own. But GM could not allocate any more camaros to dealers that are selling above MSRP.
I offered MSRP to a local dealer that had 3 Camaro SS cars unsold on the lot. But now im going to take a wait and see approch. Im going to see what the 2011 Mustang GT or SE Mustang is going to bring to the table.
I offered MSRP to a local dealer that had 3 Camaro SS cars unsold on the lot. But now im going to take a wait and see approch. Im going to see what the 2011 Mustang GT or SE Mustang is going to bring to the table.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Not really. That would likely be a franchise law violation, as it would effectively be telling the dealer what they could sell the car for.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 148
From: Southeastern PA
I have less passion for GM. When I was a kid I was crazy about Chevrolet. I thought my dads pickup truck was the coolest truck out there. A close friend's dad had a jacked up 70s Chevy that was pretty sweet too. The Vette and the Camaro were awesome and forget Ford or Dodge, let alone imports from anywhere but Italy. As I approached driving age I knew that I was going to buy a Camaro. First I wanted a third gen, then an LT1 car, then I decided I would try to convince my parents to help me out with a LS1 SS. That didnt work out and somewhere along the way I discovered and fell in love with the 69s. My mom bought a new car, so I got her 1990 Accord for 500 and was able to put the rest of the money I had saved up towards my 69.
When I was shopping for a used car to replace the Accord last year I tried to find something I wanted from the American companies, but everything I liked was too expensive or too impractical. There was no point in going with a GTO or Terminator when I have the 69 to play with. The C5 cant seat 4. The CTS and LS were disappointing. It seemed like half the cars I looked at had the same interior quality as my Accord, if not worse. I think thats when my GM love really started to slip.
My love for GM is still there for sure. And I think right now the new products are there or coming to make a difference. We have some models that are outdated, but that happens in this industry. As somebody already said, this is a golden age of GM performance. I'm disappointed in the current state of GM, but I understand that killing Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Hummer is supposed to make GM stronger in the end. I understand wholely that every car that comes out cannot be a performance vehicle. What I do NOT understand is the recent reports that we're going to get more Chinese made vehicles. What I do not understand is the continuous stupid decisions, such as the talk of moving the sub-CTS Caddy to EpsilonII. Why throw away the progress that has been made with creating BLS v.2? That's exaggerated but the comment holds some water. It seems like lately there is always some decision that I read about that has me scratching my head wondering what they're thinking. Half the time it feels like its a one step forward, two steps back situation.
When I was shopping for a used car to replace the Accord last year I tried to find something I wanted from the American companies, but everything I liked was too expensive or too impractical. There was no point in going with a GTO or Terminator when I have the 69 to play with. The C5 cant seat 4. The CTS and LS were disappointing. It seemed like half the cars I looked at had the same interior quality as my Accord, if not worse. I think thats when my GM love really started to slip.
My love for GM is still there for sure. And I think right now the new products are there or coming to make a difference. We have some models that are outdated, but that happens in this industry. As somebody already said, this is a golden age of GM performance. I'm disappointed in the current state of GM, but I understand that killing Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Hummer is supposed to make GM stronger in the end. I understand wholely that every car that comes out cannot be a performance vehicle. What I do NOT understand is the recent reports that we're going to get more Chinese made vehicles. What I do not understand is the continuous stupid decisions, such as the talk of moving the sub-CTS Caddy to EpsilonII. Why throw away the progress that has been made with creating BLS v.2? That's exaggerated but the comment holds some water. It seems like lately there is always some decision that I read about that has me scratching my head wondering what they're thinking. Half the time it feels like its a one step forward, two steps back situation.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
I don't have any less passion for GM's products or the brand. The new Camaro, the 2010 Lacrosse, the Corvette, the CTS... all are magnificent designs with great quality. People tend to lose perspective on just how good these new cars are. The Camaro SS for example, can run rings around previous versions. I believe once GM's done restructuring they will be making more great cars like these. GM's leadership though... I've lost a little respect for. I guess everyone makes mistakes. I'm hopeful things will change for the better as things get sorted out.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
*Raises hand*
What's sad is that I have been MUCH more passionate about GM since around 2004 than I had ever been before. I had so much faith in the "impending revival" The one that probably would've happened if the government hadn't effed everything up by letting the market get greedy.
I'm very polar on the subject right now...
Part of me looks around and sees the vehicles that I love being killed left and right (Impala SS, Cobalt SS, HHR SS, Solstice, G8, STS-V, Saturn Sky, Saturn Outlook, etc.) and holds out little hope for GM...
But I'm a fighter... And I'll always have a love for GM, even if it's "the GM I knew" So, the other part of me looks around and says;
"Alright... This bloodshed had to happen... The strong brands have emerged! Now, let's attack the market with the beast that is/will become Chevrolet, immediately! We need to get a steady drip of marketing and vehicles from Opel for Buick STAT! We need to work on making GMC immune to falling truck sales and incorporate some Hummer attitude. And we need to ALLOW Cadillac to be the best in the world again."
That's just who I am and what I try to project on what I'm passionate about. If you get knocked down, you get right back up and move forward. And if you keep getting knocked down, you repeat the process until you're too dead to get back up again.
Oldsmobile was a big hit for me, but only because of the history and significance of the name. Saturn, Hummer and Saab made me sad, but we could live without them. Pontiac, however, was a huge blow to me... That was MY brand. The brand I identified with, even if it didn't mean the same thing to a lot of buyers and even if it was a shadow of itself in so many ways. I went to a Pontiac dealer this weekend and made peace with the fact that all of the new models (except Solstice and G8) were a disgrace to a once proud brand. And I also made peace with the fact that Chevy could probably sell either of the afore mentioned.
I went to a local Camaro reveal this week, rather unenthusiastically. I looked at the car (which is gorgeous) and looked at the salesman and said: "You know, I own 2 Camaros, but I always viewed myself as more of a Pontiac guy now." To which he replied "Welcome back to Camaro and Chevrolet"
I think that raised my spirits a lot. I hate to see GM get rid of some of it's brands, but I also KNOW the potential that the remaining brands have IF FUNDED AND MANAGED CORRECTLY. And frankly, I can't WAIT to watch and participate in the new, smaller, empowered GM whipping some import ***.
Besides, maybe Pontiac will emerge again someday. GM obviously doesn't want to sell the brand and GM obviously tried to figure out a way to make it work. And if not, the spirit of what's lost remains in the company (in those that cared in the first place)
Here's to hoping that those in charge at GM realize the potential that they still have with this smaller, tougher than nails, entity that has more heritage in 4 brands than the entire asian market.
What's sad is that I have been MUCH more passionate about GM since around 2004 than I had ever been before. I had so much faith in the "impending revival" The one that probably would've happened if the government hadn't effed everything up by letting the market get greedy.
I'm very polar on the subject right now...
Part of me looks around and sees the vehicles that I love being killed left and right (Impala SS, Cobalt SS, HHR SS, Solstice, G8, STS-V, Saturn Sky, Saturn Outlook, etc.) and holds out little hope for GM...
But I'm a fighter... And I'll always have a love for GM, even if it's "the GM I knew" So, the other part of me looks around and says;
"Alright... This bloodshed had to happen... The strong brands have emerged! Now, let's attack the market with the beast that is/will become Chevrolet, immediately! We need to get a steady drip of marketing and vehicles from Opel for Buick STAT! We need to work on making GMC immune to falling truck sales and incorporate some Hummer attitude. And we need to ALLOW Cadillac to be the best in the world again."
That's just who I am and what I try to project on what I'm passionate about. If you get knocked down, you get right back up and move forward. And if you keep getting knocked down, you repeat the process until you're too dead to get back up again.
Oldsmobile was a big hit for me, but only because of the history and significance of the name. Saturn, Hummer and Saab made me sad, but we could live without them. Pontiac, however, was a huge blow to me... That was MY brand. The brand I identified with, even if it didn't mean the same thing to a lot of buyers and even if it was a shadow of itself in so many ways. I went to a Pontiac dealer this weekend and made peace with the fact that all of the new models (except Solstice and G8) were a disgrace to a once proud brand. And I also made peace with the fact that Chevy could probably sell either of the afore mentioned.
I went to a local Camaro reveal this week, rather unenthusiastically. I looked at the car (which is gorgeous) and looked at the salesman and said: "You know, I own 2 Camaros, but I always viewed myself as more of a Pontiac guy now." To which he replied "Welcome back to Camaro and Chevrolet"
I think that raised my spirits a lot. I hate to see GM get rid of some of it's brands, but I also KNOW the potential that the remaining brands have IF FUNDED AND MANAGED CORRECTLY. And frankly, I can't WAIT to watch and participate in the new, smaller, empowered GM whipping some import ***.
Besides, maybe Pontiac will emerge again someday. GM obviously doesn't want to sell the brand and GM obviously tried to figure out a way to make it work. And if not, the spirit of what's lost remains in the company (in those that cared in the first place)
Here's to hoping that those in charge at GM realize the potential that they still have with this smaller, tougher than nails, entity that has more heritage in 4 brands than the entire asian market.
Last edited by FUTURE_OF_GM; May 14, 2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
*Raises hand*
What's sad is that I have been MUCH more passionate about GM since around 2004 than I had ever been before. I had so much faith in the "impending revival" The one that probably would've happened if the government hadn't effed everything up by letting the market get greedy.
I'm very polar on the subject right now...
Part of me looks around and sees the vehicles that I love being killed left and right (Impala SS, Cobalt SS, HHR SS, Solstice, G8, STS-V, Saturn Sky, Saturn Outlook, etc.) and holds out little hope for GM...
But I'm a fighter... And I'll always have a love for GM, even if it's "the GM I knew" So, the other part of me looks around and says;
"Alright... This bloodshed had to happen... The strong brands have emerged! Now, let's attack the market with the beast that is/will become Chevrolet, immediately! We need to get a steady drip of marketing and vehicles from Opel for Buick STAT! We need to work on making GMC immune to falling truck sales and incorporate some Hummer attitude. And we need to ALLOW Cadillac to be the best in the world again."
That's just who I am and what I try to project on what I'm passionate about. If you get knocked down, you get right back up and move forward. And if you keep getting knocked down, you repeat the process until you're too dead to get back up again.
Oldsmobile was a big hit for me, but only because of the history and significance of the name. Saturn, Hummer and Saab made me sad, but we could live without them. Pontiac, however, was a huge blow to me... That was MY brand. The brand I identified with, even if it didn't mean the same thing to a lot of buyers and even if it was a shadow of itself in so many ways. I went to a Pontiac dealer this weekend and made peace with the fact that all of the new models (except Solstice and G8) were a disgrace to a once proud brand. And I also made peace with the fact that Chevy could probably sell either of the afore mentioned.
I went to a local Camaro reveal this week, rather unenthusiastically. I looked at the car (which is gorgeous) and looked at the salesman and said: "You know, I own 2 Camaros, but I always viewed myself as more of a Pontiac guy now." To which he replied "Welcome back to Camaro and Chevrolet"
I think that raised my spirits a lot. I hate to see GM get rid of some of it's brands, but I also KNOW the potential that the remaining brands have IF FUNDED AND MANAGED CORRECTLY. And frankly, I can't WAIT to watch and participate in the new, smaller, empowered GM whipping some import ***.
Besides, maybe Pontiac will emerge again someday. GM obviously doesn't want to sell the brand and GM obviously tried to figure out a way to make it work. And if not, the spirit of what's lost remains in the company (in those that cared in the first place)
Here's to hoping that those in charge at GM realize the potential that they still have with this smaller, tougher than nails, entity that has more heritage in 4 brands than the entire asian market.
What's sad is that I have been MUCH more passionate about GM since around 2004 than I had ever been before. I had so much faith in the "impending revival" The one that probably would've happened if the government hadn't effed everything up by letting the market get greedy.
I'm very polar on the subject right now...
Part of me looks around and sees the vehicles that I love being killed left and right (Impala SS, Cobalt SS, HHR SS, Solstice, G8, STS-V, Saturn Sky, Saturn Outlook, etc.) and holds out little hope for GM...
But I'm a fighter... And I'll always have a love for GM, even if it's "the GM I knew" So, the other part of me looks around and says;
"Alright... This bloodshed had to happen... The strong brands have emerged! Now, let's attack the market with the beast that is/will become Chevrolet, immediately! We need to get a steady drip of marketing and vehicles from Opel for Buick STAT! We need to work on making GMC immune to falling truck sales and incorporate some Hummer attitude. And we need to ALLOW Cadillac to be the best in the world again."
That's just who I am and what I try to project on what I'm passionate about. If you get knocked down, you get right back up and move forward. And if you keep getting knocked down, you repeat the process until you're too dead to get back up again.
Oldsmobile was a big hit for me, but only because of the history and significance of the name. Saturn, Hummer and Saab made me sad, but we could live without them. Pontiac, however, was a huge blow to me... That was MY brand. The brand I identified with, even if it didn't mean the same thing to a lot of buyers and even if it was a shadow of itself in so many ways. I went to a Pontiac dealer this weekend and made peace with the fact that all of the new models (except Solstice and G8) were a disgrace to a once proud brand. And I also made peace with the fact that Chevy could probably sell either of the afore mentioned.
I went to a local Camaro reveal this week, rather unenthusiastically. I looked at the car (which is gorgeous) and looked at the salesman and said: "You know, I own 2 Camaros, but I always viewed myself as more of a Pontiac guy now." To which he replied "Welcome back to Camaro and Chevrolet"
I think that raised my spirits a lot. I hate to see GM get rid of some of it's brands, but I also KNOW the potential that the remaining brands have IF FUNDED AND MANAGED CORRECTLY. And frankly, I can't WAIT to watch and participate in the new, smaller, empowered GM whipping some import ***.
Besides, maybe Pontiac will emerge again someday. GM obviously doesn't want to sell the brand and GM obviously tried to figure out a way to make it work. And if not, the spirit of what's lost remains in the company (in those that cared in the first place)
Here's to hoping that those in charge at GM realize the potential that they still have with this smaller, tougher than nails, entity that has more heritage in 4 brands than the entire asian market.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
One thing I can honestly say about this forum and the anti-GM tirade from some quarters... it usually makes for depressive reading. And I thought we all love Camaros?
I'm finding more posts from pro-capitalists, pro-Wall Street proponents than I do from pro-Camaro enthusiasts. At least I know GM provides me with products that give me fun times. The other topics are just kill-joys. At least I know there's more to life than just politics, banks and profits. You can't take any of those things to the grave with you!
Did I mention the word, "depressing"?
I'm finding more posts from pro-capitalists, pro-Wall Street proponents than I do from pro-Camaro enthusiasts. At least I know GM provides me with products that give me fun times. The other topics are just kill-joys. At least I know there's more to life than just politics, banks and profits. You can't take any of those things to the grave with you!
Did I mention the word, "depressing"?
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I think that raised my spirits a lot. I hate to see GM get rid of some of it's brands, but I also KNOW the potential that the remaining brands have IF FUNDED AND MANAGED CORRECTLY. And frankly, I can't WAIT to watch and participate in the new, smaller, empowered GM whipping some import ***.
Get down to a set of 'core' brands and they might have a chance. Either Chevy beats Toyota and Cadillac beats Lexus, or they don't. There's no other brand for management to shift blame to when product and marketing doesn't cut it.
And I'll say it again. In 2011, GM won't have an uncompetitive car in production (except the Aveo and maybe the Impala). They won't have every segment covered, but from now on, quality beats quantity.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Great posts, guys. All that I can say is, for me personally, having sold Olds/Pontiac from '99 through March 2006, we had some great products that inspired me. Everything from GTPs to Auroras to Firebirds. Now, I look at what will be left, and I'm yawning all over...
1) Cruze is a great A to B car, but will there be an enthusiast version?
2) Malibu + no 2 door + no sports model = No Care
3) Future Buicks look great, but they're modeled after Acura and cheaper Lexus'. That's not me. At all.
4) I can't afford a Cadillac.
5) I don't need a truck or a crossover.
That leaves Camaro, once the G8 is gone. If it had a Malibu or G8-like dashboard, I'd already have one on order. Remember, I was one of the lucky ones who got to go see the concept unveiling (I still owe Scott a debt of gratitude for that one...). I want to worship this car...
But I can't...and there's nothing else, GM-wide, right now.
1) Cruze is a great A to B car, but will there be an enthusiast version?
2) Malibu + no 2 door + no sports model = No Care
3) Future Buicks look great, but they're modeled after Acura and cheaper Lexus'. That's not me. At all.
4) I can't afford a Cadillac.
5) I don't need a truck or a crossover.
That leaves Camaro, once the G8 is gone. If it had a Malibu or G8-like dashboard, I'd already have one on order. Remember, I was one of the lucky ones who got to go see the concept unveiling (I still owe Scott a debt of gratitude for that one...). I want to worship this car...
But I can't...and there's nothing else, GM-wide, right now.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
I feel like I'm experiencing a weird phenomenon lately. Since I was a little kid, who could barely see above a fender, let alone reach an accelerator pedal, I've been surrounded by and worshipped GM products. In the '80s, when I was a little kid, I was wowed by F bodies...G bodies (specifically my uncle's TPI '86 MC SS and another uncle's '85 GN)...Fieros...Corvettes (I still remember when I was about 5, and my father explained to me that a Corvette was made by Chevy! My little mind, even then, was aware enough that I could not comprehend how the same company that made my dad's brown '81 Chevette we were in could make such a beautiful car!)...and those big, beautiful RWD Caddies floating around all over downtown.
In the '90s, despite ever-declining market share, it seemed like even more cool things were coming. Turbo and DOHC 3.4 W bodies, 180hp 2.3 liter Grand Ams and Berettas, Z24s buzzing all over town, 4th gen F bodies, C5s
took the breath away of my entire high school, s/c 3800 Bonnevilles, Grand Prixs, Regals, aggressive (but not completely overdone...yet) '92-'98 Grand Am SEs and GTs...hell, even the renaissance of Oldsmobile with the Aurora, Intrigue and Alero caught my eye. And to this day, I still think the '95-'98 Riviera is one of the most beautiful cars Buick ever produced.
Then we come to this decade, and despite even better product in many ways (can anyone say Aura? Solstice? Malibu? Trucks? Cadillac's entire line??), the excitement has completely waned to a trickle. The soul seems to be gone, despite ever-better product. It seems like GM has completely lost the attention and desire of the general public. Need proof??
1) Compare a dimunitive little Astra to ANY subcompact GM has made in 30 years...and how many they made before, yet this car wasn't even winked at.
2) The wide acclaim the '97-'03 Grand Prix received, compared to the complete dis-interest the '04-'08 received, and now the G8.
3) The fact that in the mid-'90s, you couldn't spit without seeing a Z24 around the corner...yet I can't even remember the last Cobalt SS I saw.
4) Pontiac went from "We Build Excitement" to "We Build Rental Cars"
5) My high school parking lot when I graduated in '98 was full of 3rd gens, S10 Blazers, '73-'87 full size pickups, Grand Ams and Berettas. Today its full of Civics, Accords, and Corollas.
I guess the point of this thread is just a realization that so many people have completely forgotten about even considering a GM for a purchase, no matter how well the product is now made, will anyone care? Is the passion for the product there? I even find myself questioning how much I care anymore. Oldsmobile and Pontiac were my 2 favorite divisions when I was growing up...both are obviously dead. I felt (and still feel) Saturn has the best overall line within GM...its dead.
Meanwhile, I can't afford a Cadillac, GM refuses to build a 2 door coupe other than the upcoming CTS Coupe and Camaro (and I still can't deal with the dash of the Camaro), and I have no interest in buying a truck. If I had been of ownership age in 1990, I could have easily seen myself buying a third gen...an H.O. Quad 4 N body (Beretta GTZ, Grand Am LE or SE)...Turbo Grand Prix...a Z24 or Turbo Sunbird. In 2000, I would've given a body part for an SS Camaro, or bought a GTP Coupe, or Alero GLS Coupe, or even an Intrigue. I did buy a Grand Am GT Coupe brand new just 2 years later.
But today, other than a G8, there is nothing. There is no Malibu 2 door...the Cobalt is old, ready to be replaced by the Cruze, and there's no sign of a sport Cruze coupe...the G6 coupe is DOA, and funky looking anyway...there is no Buick I want, no Cadillac I can afford, and no way to replace the 5th gen dashboard.
I wonder, how many others are like me? Those that have lost their desire for GM's products, despite the fact so many are, without question, superior to the offerings of years ago?
An interesting issue, I face. Now that I'm of age to buy my second, new GM product....I don't even want one
In the '90s, despite ever-declining market share, it seemed like even more cool things were coming. Turbo and DOHC 3.4 W bodies, 180hp 2.3 liter Grand Ams and Berettas, Z24s buzzing all over town, 4th gen F bodies, C5s
took the breath away of my entire high school, s/c 3800 Bonnevilles, Grand Prixs, Regals, aggressive (but not completely overdone...yet) '92-'98 Grand Am SEs and GTs...hell, even the renaissance of Oldsmobile with the Aurora, Intrigue and Alero caught my eye. And to this day, I still think the '95-'98 Riviera is one of the most beautiful cars Buick ever produced.Then we come to this decade, and despite even better product in many ways (can anyone say Aura? Solstice? Malibu? Trucks? Cadillac's entire line??), the excitement has completely waned to a trickle. The soul seems to be gone, despite ever-better product. It seems like GM has completely lost the attention and desire of the general public. Need proof??
1) Compare a dimunitive little Astra to ANY subcompact GM has made in 30 years...and how many they made before, yet this car wasn't even winked at.
2) The wide acclaim the '97-'03 Grand Prix received, compared to the complete dis-interest the '04-'08 received, and now the G8.
3) The fact that in the mid-'90s, you couldn't spit without seeing a Z24 around the corner...yet I can't even remember the last Cobalt SS I saw.
4) Pontiac went from "We Build Excitement" to "We Build Rental Cars"
5) My high school parking lot when I graduated in '98 was full of 3rd gens, S10 Blazers, '73-'87 full size pickups, Grand Ams and Berettas. Today its full of Civics, Accords, and Corollas.
I guess the point of this thread is just a realization that so many people have completely forgotten about even considering a GM for a purchase, no matter how well the product is now made, will anyone care? Is the passion for the product there? I even find myself questioning how much I care anymore. Oldsmobile and Pontiac were my 2 favorite divisions when I was growing up...both are obviously dead. I felt (and still feel) Saturn has the best overall line within GM...its dead.
Meanwhile, I can't afford a Cadillac, GM refuses to build a 2 door coupe other than the upcoming CTS Coupe and Camaro (and I still can't deal with the dash of the Camaro), and I have no interest in buying a truck. If I had been of ownership age in 1990, I could have easily seen myself buying a third gen...an H.O. Quad 4 N body (Beretta GTZ, Grand Am LE or SE)...Turbo Grand Prix...a Z24 or Turbo Sunbird. In 2000, I would've given a body part for an SS Camaro, or bought a GTP Coupe, or Alero GLS Coupe, or even an Intrigue. I did buy a Grand Am GT Coupe brand new just 2 years later.
But today, other than a G8, there is nothing. There is no Malibu 2 door...the Cobalt is old, ready to be replaced by the Cruze, and there's no sign of a sport Cruze coupe...the G6 coupe is DOA, and funky looking anyway...there is no Buick I want, no Cadillac I can afford, and no way to replace the 5th gen dashboard.
I wonder, how many others are like me? Those that have lost their desire for GM's products, despite the fact so many are, without question, superior to the offerings of years ago?
An interesting issue, I face. Now that I'm of age to buy my second, new GM product....I don't even want one
My son worked at 2 Chrysler dealerships one in Phoenix and another here in San Francisco. He just recently picked up a job as a salesman at a Chevrolet dealership near Nashville Tennesee. He's experiencing a rude awakening.
While he could sell the living daylights out of Chrysler LX cars and Jeeps, he's finding Chevrolets (a car brand he has favored because of Camaro and Corvette) to be downright impossible to sell as easily as he sold Dodges and Chryslers, and Jeeps. When you think about it, it's no mystery.
Cobalts versus Focuses.
Impalas and Malibus versus Fusions.
Camaros are coming on line, and are the only thing people are intrested in buying from Chevrolet dealerships, but they are in no way the volume sellers that a Impala or Malibu should be. Ford has even leapfrogged GM in trucks..... badly. To add insult to injury, bankrupt Chrysler even has a better trailer control system than GM (though not better than Ford).
I can easily name grate GM Cars currently being made. But if the conversation revolves around mortal cars (not something that ends in SS, V or P), outside of the CTS, the G8, and the new Camaro, I really can't suggest any GM cars that outstrip anything the competition from Ford, Chrysler, or imports offer.
Yet back in the late 70s, even LM1 Caprice Classic coupes were cars that evoked a bit of excitement. My dad had one. It was a family car. A relative's Buick sedan had a fastback and a turbo. This was in a period when cars were supposedly bad.
The current Impala is boring. My sister told Scott that the then new Cobalt was no kore exciting than her old Cavalier. Despite T-tops accountinmg for something like 70% of 4th gen Camaro production, none is offered in the 5th gen (again to my sister's dismay).
There is no W-car coupe. The only Espilon coupe is from a division that won't exist in another 7 months. Solstice and Sky, GM arguably 2 most exciting normal cars outside Camaro are dead.
I think the Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, and Dodge Charger are all intresting cars. I think the SRT8 Cherokee is the only SUV I'd consider. The SRT4 Caliber more than makes up for it's ugly looks, and actually has a bit of personality. The new Ford Taurus is at the very least intresting... it looks good outside, and it's interior is amazing. The Fusion is almost equally so. The Crown Vic and Merc GM has been making great interiors for years, and the Maurader was a great car looking for an equally great engine, but still something many people would consider.
Outside of Cadillac, GM's standard issue "gotta-have-it's" are severly limited to IMHO the Aura and maybe the Malibu. Maybe the assorted Hummer. That's it.
I find it both extremely painful and halariously ironic that pretty much the only car that is generating a massive amount of intrest at GM, the car that very well could sve GM, the car that very well could boost both GM's image, and rally those at GM is the same car that would have never seen the light of day if it had to go through normal channels or produced the normal GM way. The Camaro represents not just how GM should have always brought a car to market, but also the way GM's approval process and mindset should operate.
