GTOJack

I have owned an 04, 05 and 06 Silverado 3500s and each one has had a different version of the Duramax. I will NOT order a new 07 version because of problems with the $2500 exhaust system. As the particulates gather the exhaust goes thru a burn off procedure that was originally planned for 8-10 thousand miles. Well in cold weather, the burn off is happening every 3 tank fulls. The system is only good for 10 burn offs so you do the math. I am now looking into the new Dodge offering: 6.7 turbo diesel that passes 50 state emissions for 2010.

Todd80Z28

Your math says that you'll trade up to the '08 before this is a problem for you.

Seriously, though- why a new truck every year?

GTOJack

I want the newest and best design and its not GM anymore. Chevy dealer says pellets have to be added to fuel to pass the 2010 diesel emissions. Give me a break! My first 3 duallies were Ford 7.3L turbo diesels. When they went to the 6.0L, they lost me. I wont be ordering an 07 from any company. I need to do research on the new Cummins and the new A6 Dodge is using.
The dealer I ordered my last 3 Chevy trucks from was tipped off by a GM engineer in Oct 06 as to possible problems with the burn off system to pass more stringent emissions. He ordered 50 of the 07 classic (old) design diesels and they sold like hot cakes. The word is now out and 06 used diesel equipped truck prices have risen greatly. Ford is also having problems with their new 6.4L twin turbo diesel with the flame thrower exhaust starting grass fires and lawsuits with Navistar.

rlchv70

MAN!!! Can your facts be any more twisted???!!!!

All of the manufacturers are using a DPF system. This system requires a periodic "regeneration" where extra fuel is injected. This happens once or twice per fill up. The DPF has to last 120k miles before it is serviced.

I have not heard of major problems on any of the big 3s 2007 setups. The Ford "flame thrower" seems to have been limited to a few trucks and was addressed with a recall.

The Ford lawsuit with Navistar will probably end their relationship after 2010, but for now it is business as usual.

For 2010, there is another step in emissions requirements. This will require aditional exhaust aftertreatment. Most companies will use SCR. This requires urea injection. This is typically sold as a liquid. It will probably have to be refilled once per oil change.

teal98

The 2007 and 2010 emission standards require lots of after treatment. Previously, a simple oxidation cat was enough. I think everyone is having problems with this, just like automakers did back in the 70s with gasoline engines.

GTOJack

The Federal Government is sure doing a good job in fu(king up light duty diesel trucks. I have also heard that stricter emissions requirements on heavy duty semi tractors are adding $9000 to the cost of each one. Ford is working on their own diesel, which obviously is pissing off Navistar to the point of litigation. Ford does tend to pony up what they owe when Navistar withholds the engines.
The looks alone would stop me from buying a new GM pickup, even if the engineers could figure out the emissions.

Derek M

GM has a handle on the emissions, just like the rest of the manufacturers. They've all had to add after treatments to diesels to meet the new 2007regulations. There were regulatory changes in '04 and '07 with another one the way in '10.

Continuously upgrading the Duramax to meet customer expectations, improving the product, while at the same time meeting increasing emissions regulations isn't a bad thing. Guess they could just throw in the towel and quit producing a truck diesel, but that wouldn't net them any new revenue or customers. Since introduction of the Duramax GM has gained back a huge amount of market share in HD diesels. Hard to argue with success.

Have fun with your Dodge, I'm sure it's a great truck.

Derek M

More horsepower and better trans and GM isn't the one anymore? Who currently offers the most horsepower and best transmission?

The dealer is hardly the ultimate resource for technical accuracy, especially for future product that's 2.5 years out. Vehicles purchased now will only have to meet the regulations that are current for the year model vehicle.

With the DCX Bluetec system, Urea (liquid) after treatment is used. Thus you have to refill with urea as well. If it's pellets or urea, does it really matter in the end? Since your history indicates you get a new truck ever year, longevity of the truck or it's systems wouldn't be of a real concern would it?

What's your dealer going to do after they've sold out of the '06 Duramax's? Not sell any '07's?

Anytime you add systems to a vehicle, there's more complexity and possible service, and potential issues. All manufacturers are adding after treatments, there's no manufacturer that's performing vehicle magic to comply with the new regs.

Ford had a limited issue with the 6.4 injectors. Other than that they seem to be selling strong. There's a video on Youtube of an '08 SD with 151k miles that had no mechanical issues.

Derek M

Yep the ever increasing regulations are definitely adding cost to diesels of all sizes.

The litigation issues between Ford and Navistar started well before the discovery of Ford developing it's own 4.4 liter diesel. There are two sides to every story. http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news...ddispute4.html

There's not much point debating the good and or bad with GM after treatment for diesels if you won't even consider a GM pickup based on looks alone then eh?

R377

Actually, Honda's forthcoming Diesel will not require a separate liquid aftertreatment that the consumer must maintain; instead it will generate its own ammonia.

Derek M

Once the ammonia is generated what's it used for?

R377

To replace the urea injection, of course. But my point was that not all automakers are requiring a separate system that is dependent on the user to keep it functioning. To the user, the Honda system will be as simple as any other Diesel vehicle.

Todd80Z28

Ammonia= NH3. Urea= CO (NH2)2, IIRC.

In either case, the stuff dissociates under temp, and the freed hydrogen will bust up the NOx molecules, sending water and nitrogen out the pipe. At least, I think that's how it goes.

I wonder how they'll generate the ammonia? Honda's diesels are going to be much smaller, too, so this may be why it's a feasible solution for them, and not the Duramax and the like.

Eric Bryant

According to the preso that Denso gave at SAE Convergence back in October, that's exactly the way that they see it - nitrogen trap (LNT) technology can be used on smaller diesels, but as the output power of the engine increases, so does the size of the required trap. At some point, the cost of that trap starts to outweigh the cost of urea injection (SCR), and so accordingly we'll see a split in preferred treatment technologies.

With regards to the OP, isn't grumping about emission control technologies a bit outdated? And with regards to GM, it seems like they handled the '07 EPA requirements rather well - the other guys either needed to add displacement (DCX) or fancy technology (Ford) to maintain competitive power levels.

teal98

A small car can get away with less aftertreatment. I think that's how Honda can manage.

Trying to generate enough ammonia for a diesel truck is probably hopeless unless the technology improves.