Honda Won't Pursue Plug-in Hybrids
10-23-2007, 10:21 AM
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Honda Won't Pursue Plug-in Hybrids
I thought this might be of interest – in what seems to me to be an illogical and ill-conceived “rush” by manufacturers to appear “green”, maybe Honda is actually showing a bit of common sense???
By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU; The Wall Street Journal - October 23, 2007 6:45 a.m.
UTSUNOMIYA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co. Chief Executive Takeo ***ui said so-called plug-in hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles offered too few environmental benefits for his company to pursue, and noted that an advanced hybrid vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt that General Motors Corp. is aiming to launch in a few years made little sense.
If Honda was able to come up with low-cost, safe and high-performing lithium-ion batteries, the Japanese executive hinted Honda would rather use them for an electric vehicle.
"My feeling is that the kind of plug-in hybrid currently proposed by different auto makers can be best described as a battery electric vehicle equipped with an unnecessary fuel engine and fuel tank," Mr. ***ui told a group of journalists Tuesday at the company's research and development center here, north of Tokyo. He said he was referring to plug-in hybrids such as the Chevy Volt. "Assuming that we can come up with a really high-performing battery that we are working on currently, I think a battery electric vehicle [that uses such battery technology] would actually be a plus from an environmental point of view."
Mr. ***ui's cautious comments about an early deployment of lithium-ion batteries to realize a vehicle like the Volt followed a similarly guarded view outlined earlier this week by Toyota Motor Corp. (See related article.)
Japan's No. 1 auto maker on Monday noted that it is taking a "step-by-step" approach to developing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and mapped out a more cautious strategy than rival GM for using lithium-ion batteries to power hybrid cars for longer distances on electricity alone.
GM, in a series of public announcements, has said it plans to bring an advanced hybrid vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt to the U.S. market by as early as 2010. The Volt concept shown by GM at the Detroit auto show earlier this year would use lithium-ion batteries to operate for as many as 40 miles on electricity alone. GM has promoted the Volt concept and its aggressive timetable as part of a broader effort to burnish its image as an auto industry green technology leader.
Toyota executives on Monday poured cold water on some of GM's claims for its Volt technology, as did Honda's Mr. ***ui Tuesday. The executives said Toyota is concerned that many customers may not accept a plug-in hybrid electric car that has to be recharged every day, despite the enthusiasm for the plug-in hybrid concept from environmental groups and from a relatively small group of electric-vehicle enthusiasts.
On Tuesday, Mr. ***ui stressed Honda could easily develop a plug-in hybrid within two years. "But I don't think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions," he said.
Lithium-ion batteries are commonly used now to power laptop computers and other small consumer appliances. But overheating lithium-ion laptop batteries have been blamed recently for a small number of fires. Auto industry executives have expressed concern about the tendency of lithium-ion batteries to overheat, and GM has said it is reviewing a number of different lithium-ion technologies before settling on batteries for the Volt.
UTSUNOMIYA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co. Chief Executive Takeo ***ui said so-called plug-in hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles offered too few environmental benefits for his company to pursue, and noted that an advanced hybrid vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt that General Motors Corp. is aiming to launch in a few years made little sense.
If Honda was able to come up with low-cost, safe and high-performing lithium-ion batteries, the Japanese executive hinted Honda would rather use them for an electric vehicle.
"My feeling is that the kind of plug-in hybrid currently proposed by different auto makers can be best described as a battery electric vehicle equipped with an unnecessary fuel engine and fuel tank," Mr. ***ui told a group of journalists Tuesday at the company's research and development center here, north of Tokyo. He said he was referring to plug-in hybrids such as the Chevy Volt. "Assuming that we can come up with a really high-performing battery that we are working on currently, I think a battery electric vehicle [that uses such battery technology] would actually be a plus from an environmental point of view."
Mr. ***ui's cautious comments about an early deployment of lithium-ion batteries to realize a vehicle like the Volt followed a similarly guarded view outlined earlier this week by Toyota Motor Corp. (See related article.)
Japan's No. 1 auto maker on Monday noted that it is taking a "step-by-step" approach to developing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and mapped out a more cautious strategy than rival GM for using lithium-ion batteries to power hybrid cars for longer distances on electricity alone.
GM, in a series of public announcements, has said it plans to bring an advanced hybrid vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt to the U.S. market by as early as 2010. The Volt concept shown by GM at the Detroit auto show earlier this year would use lithium-ion batteries to operate for as many as 40 miles on electricity alone. GM has promoted the Volt concept and its aggressive timetable as part of a broader effort to burnish its image as an auto industry green technology leader.
Toyota executives on Monday poured cold water on some of GM's claims for its Volt technology, as did Honda's Mr. ***ui Tuesday. The executives said Toyota is concerned that many customers may not accept a plug-in hybrid electric car that has to be recharged every day, despite the enthusiasm for the plug-in hybrid concept from environmental groups and from a relatively small group of electric-vehicle enthusiasts.
On Tuesday, Mr. ***ui stressed Honda could easily develop a plug-in hybrid within two years. "But I don't think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions," he said.
Lithium-ion batteries are commonly used now to power laptop computers and other small consumer appliances. But overheating lithium-ion laptop batteries have been blamed recently for a small number of fires. Auto industry executives have expressed concern about the tendency of lithium-ion batteries to overheat, and GM has said it is reviewing a number of different lithium-ion technologies before settling on batteries for the Volt.
I love how the bad-language filter editted his name. 
10-23-2007, 10:49 AM
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Yeah, but the fact that they are getting something out is a good step. That way they can learn from this.... and it can always evolve... the technology will keep getting better and so will the car itself. So, get it out now... people will buy it. 
10-23-2007, 10:53 AM
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technically teh Volt is not a plug-in hybrid.. it's an electric car with an on-board range extender. .. based on what we know... you you should be able to take out the range extender and the car would still run fine
10-23-2007, 10:58 AM
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Yeah, everyone seems to forget the engineering advancements being pushed by the vehicles that are on the market now. These baby steps are necessary. Pentium 4s weren't made the first time Intel attempted to produce a microprocessor, DDR2 wasn't the first memory chip pushed out, and the LSx built upon previous engineering.
Here's why Mr ***ui
is poo-pooing the current hybrid setups- Honda hasn't taken the time to engineer a dual mode hybrid setup. All their current setups, from Insight to the current Civic, use an electric boost motor that never runs separately from the engine. That's why it "doesn't make sense for Honda to pursue this technology."
They're pushing hard on their FCX anyway. I hope to see that in a couple of years.
Todd
Here's why Mr ***ui
is poo-pooing the current hybrid setups- Honda hasn't taken the time to engineer a dual mode hybrid setup. All their current setups, from Insight to the current Civic, use an electric boost motor that never runs separately from the engine. That's why it "doesn't make sense for Honda to pursue this technology."They're pushing hard on their FCX anyway. I hope to see that in a couple of years.
Todd
10-23-2007, 11:42 AM
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"On Tuesday, Mr. ***ui stressed Honda could easily develop a plug-in hybrid within two years. "But I don't think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions," he said."
They could also kill themselves, thus leading to a reduced amount of electricty, food, and water needed to be produced, shipped, and marketed to them, which would reduce "global warming gases", and that would take only a minute!!!
You're dead on Todd, no Japanese-originated manufacturer has built an electric car with a range extender, that would make too much sense for them. The only way it can be called a hybrid is if you can run on the gas generator alone.
They could also kill themselves, thus leading to a reduced amount of electricty, food, and water needed to be produced, shipped, and marketed to them, which would reduce "global warming gases", and that would take only a minute!!!
You're dead on Todd, no Japanese-originated manufacturer has built an electric car with a range extender, that would make too much sense for them. The only way it can be called a hybrid is if you can run on the gas generator alone.
10-23-2007, 12:29 PM
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10-23-2007, 12:34 PM
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There have been plug-in conversion kits for hondas and Toyotas for some time now that work rather well. The technology already is proven and exists. It has never been an OEM, but hey - it works.
As to why suddenly Honda says it is a bad idea I think is a bit of a desparate comment- they know the Volt (if it comes out when they say it will) is ahead of their curve. Having a "range extending internal combustion engine" is the medicine for America's electric car phobia. How many Americans like the idea of "you can only drive a limited number of miles a day without recharge"???
With a range extending gas engine, the average consumer doesnt have the plug it in or mess with it. They add gas like a normal engine, and plug it in when they feel like it or remember. The car works either way.
Sure a pure plug in is great and will work - but how many EV1's would GM have REALLY sold? How many Electrics will Honda REALLY sell?
As to why suddenly Honda says it is a bad idea I think is a bit of a desparate comment- they know the Volt (if it comes out when they say it will) is ahead of their curve. Having a "range extending internal combustion engine" is the medicine for America's electric car phobia. How many Americans like the idea of "you can only drive a limited number of miles a day without recharge"???
With a range extending gas engine, the average consumer doesnt have the plug it in or mess with it. They add gas like a normal engine, and plug it in when they feel like it or remember. The car works either way.
Sure a pure plug in is great and will work - but how many EV1's would GM have REALLY sold? How many Electrics will Honda REALLY sell?
10-23-2007, 12:52 PM
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Ha.
Plug-in hybrids may not ultimately make complete sense, but I don't see how they make any less sense than anything Toyota or Honda are currently doing.
What Mr. Vulgar-name from Honda is leaving out is the fact that the Volt is every bit as much a marketing tool as it is a real effort to be more "environmentally responsible". In that sense, the development of plug-in hybrids will still be extremely worthwhile for any automaker that decides to do it.
Simply put, it's a bit disingenuous for the Japanese to claim that American hybrids like Volt make no sense but theirs do.
Plug-in hybrids may not ultimately make complete sense, but I don't see how they make any less sense than anything Toyota or Honda are currently doing.
What Mr. Vulgar-name from Honda is leaving out is the fact that the Volt is every bit as much a marketing tool as it is a real effort to be more "environmentally responsible". In that sense, the development of plug-in hybrids will still be extremely worthwhile for any automaker that decides to do it.
Simply put, it's a bit disingenuous for the Japanese to claim that American hybrids like Volt make no sense but theirs do.
10-23-2007, 01:33 PM
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i dont know if it makes any sense in terms of beeing green but what about in terms of saving me money. i dont know how to put this in a way that doesnt sound bad but im more concerned about saying money then i am about being green. if the volt saves me money by using electricity to off set the price of fuel then i would get one but to just be green i wouldnt.
i dont think the price of current hybrids in terms of purchase and maintenance off set the price of my cobalt and the fuel i burn in it so thats why i am not looking ito them right now.
i dont think the price of current hybrids in terms of purchase and maintenance off set the price of my cobalt and the fuel i burn in it so thats why i am not looking ito them right now.
Last edited by GRNcamaro; 10-23-2007 at 01:36 PM.
10-23-2007, 04:16 PM
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To champion electric cars yet ditch the volt sounds like he doesn't have a clue. Electric cars downfall is range and recharge time, that is why we don't drive them right now. An onboard generator solves these issues, although does create more, but those it creates we are already dealing with on current automobiles.