I was wondering if we could piece together some info on the Holden VE platform, coming in 2005.

Some say it will be a combination of the current VY series and Sigma. The rear suspension will probably be upgraded to a multi-link design.

What else do we know or theorize? Guion? All you Aussie guys?

 

I dont know im all confuzed ...???

its going to have a spin-off the sigma chassis... with multi link irs..

its going to have a GEn IV V8 which will in essence be a HFV6 with a couple more cylinders ???

a version of it will be mass produced in the states as the GTO / Impala SS maybe even camaro and will topple the stang off its throne...

Holden will supervise GM N/A quality control in making engines and how to build a reasonably high quality car and at the same time keep it within budget...

the above statements are just me rambling.... but could come true.. i think.

 

Not that much is known for sure really. I think it will get the sigma front and rear suspension. It will have a 3.8L HFV6 (TT maybe? but some people have ruled it out) should get the GenIV V8 and should get either a 5 speed for 6 speed auto, the names ZF (i think) and BTR have been thrown around for the auto. Many models would get AWD as an option, fitted with a combination of V6 or V8 with an auto or manual.

From what has been hinted at it looks possible that Holden will have a new wheel base added to the current Commodore and Statesman wheel bases. The new one would be around the same size as a Opel Vectra (my guess) and be RWD or AWD. Hinted name is Torana.

Will add more as I think of it.

 

What do we know?

VE will run on some kind of derivative of the Sigma chasis, which is currently only found under the Cadillac CTS. The fact that Ford Oz has at least one such car on the streets down here (running on engineering evaluation plates) tells us plenty about what Ford knows.

That car is currently half-way through its evaluation cycle (i.e. being thrashed and then ripped apart).

My Ford Oz contact reckons it has the best dynamics of any US designed and built car he has seen. So clearly it's a good starting point. Sigma is not a cheap platform, however, especially when one considers Australia's limited volumes. Things like hollow cast aluminium arms and hydroformed subframes are expensive to engineer and produce and are really over-kill in Australia's non-CAFE and small-volume market. Amortising costs would eat into short-term profit margins.

My guess is that VE will carry-over the current MacPherson front end, and will slot the rear suspension in with less aluminium and a less expensive subframe.

Cost factors wouldn't be as significant on the long wheel base luxury models (or even the more expensive sports models) and we may see the full Sigma set-up on these models.

The engine is definitely HFV6 with 3.8 liters and around 190kW (255 hp) -- it's not in any of the Oz manufacturer's interests to go above this number on what are, essentially, bread and butter fleet and family cars. Sports models are a different matter of course...

I don't have anything conclusive on the status of the Gen IV V8 in VE.

I keep hearing rumblings about the possibility of a 6 speed auto in time for 2005 (when VE is due to be released). This goes for both Ford and Holden, although both will get a 5 speeder in the interim. A ZF 6 speed isn't that hard to believe when you consider the sheer number of these things that will be produced in the coming years. 6 speeders are, as I've mentioned in the past here (I think), cheaper to produce and less mechanically complex than a 5 speed auto.

The big question, for me anyway, is whether or not VE will get any design inspiration from the CTS? I certainly hope NOT!!

 

This is roughly all I know about this:

There are essentially 2 sigmas, the Cadillac CTS based version, and the version under development by Holden for use worldwide. The CTS based version is self explanitory, and the Holden developed version is a derivitive of the V-chassis.

It's important to note the difference between the chassis & structure of a car. The chassis in this case refers to the rear suspension assembly (a entirely assembled unit that includes a subframe ready to be installed), a front suspension assembly, also ready to be bolted in. The structure refers to the unibody, ie: the floorpan, the front end substructure, and what is commonly known as the "firewall".

The next Statesman will likely be Cadillac sigma based, and will esentially be a version of a Cadillac, becoming more removed from the rest of Holden's line. This includes the body structure as well as the chassis components.

Meanwhile, the VE will share it's structure with a Chevrolet & Pontiac sedan. A component of "sigma" such as the rear suspension assembly may be used & the structure of the V car would be modified to accept this assembly (current V-cars have the suspension mounted directly to the chassis w/o a subframe), while the front suspension may be modified somewhat & the front substructure would be changed to meet US standards as well as other countries, and could be remotely called a "sigma", but in reality is a hybrid of the 2.

Cadillac (with the exception of Buick) has a lock on the structure we currently know as "sigma", and it WON'T be shared with other divisions (that has been strongly stressed by pretty much everyone in & outside GM....ie: vendors). The only "sigma" (if you want to call it that) which will be shared with other divisions is what Holden is cooking up and will evidently get 1st use of.

 

Wouldnt the C5 have eaten most of the cost of developing hydroformed subframes, or at least just the process of producing the parts?

And what did Chevy gain from giving Caddy both the y-body and the LS1/6 engines? I cant just see them giving Caddy their bread-and0butter parts for free.

 

Until the tech sheet for the SS concept was leaked out a week or two ago ( naming it's Corvette suspension components).....I was convinced that it would give us a peek into the VE platform.

 

Maybe the tech sheet for the SS was false...just to throw us off. Why would they use C4 components anyway? Seems odd to me.

 

No, it's correct alright. C5 in front, C4 in the rear. The C4 was easier to use than C5 IRS. Remember, C5 has a rear mounted tranny.

 

From http://www.hrt433.vze.com/

LION'S VE STRATEGY
Inside eight months, Holden will begin to reveal its long-term model strategy with the release of high AWD and low AWD variants of the Commodore platform. In total, Holden will develop an incredible 35 models from nine variants off the one Commodore platform. That is a record within GM.

Platform versatility is one key to Holden's plans to build 200,000 cars per year at Elizabeth. The other is cost. Think Monaro, and your in sync with the logic. Profitable, small-volume production will allow Holden to produce perhaps as many as 50 to 60 models and several more variants. An AWD double cab utility to a two-door cabriolet of the SSX hatch concept are all possible in 2WD and AWD with V8 or V6 and in RHD or LHD.

By engineering versatility into the new VE platform (late 2005), Holden cam rapidly and affordably design and build an incredible range of body-style and drivetrain variants. "For a small-volume manufacturer, this is exactly what we'll need to survive," said Peter Hanenberger, Holden chief.

Design chief Michael Simcoe explains versatility. "We're engineering the new platform structure into four modules: front engine and suspension, fuel tank and rear suspension, floor and C pillar, and doors and roof." Simcoe and his team of designers can then make body alterations without affecting the basic structure. "The VT platform, for example, was engineered to build only a sedan, LWB cars and ute," he said. "Not the Monaro or hatch." - TODD HALLENBECK


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HOLDEN'S ALL-NEW V6
Provided you peak under the bonnet, you'll see Holden's new V6 in the VZ Commodore in late 2004. What's good about it? All-aluminium with variable-phased dual overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder, it will be built in four capacities from 2.8 to 3.8 litres. Power outputs range from 150 kW (nat-atmo) to 275 kW (turbocharged). For more than a year MOTOR has reported HOlden will use the 3.8-litre 190 kW HFV6 in Commodore; wee still say that.