Holden update/roundup from the auto show
01-17-2010, 01:54 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
I assume the Buick alpha will be a production version of the Riviera concept?
Part of me really hates that Cadillac is Sigma-izing Alpha. But then again, I'd be happy with it as long as Buick gets some of the love and Chevrolet has some sort of RWD alternative (Zeta lite or a slightly decontented Alpha)
My question is this; will the next, larger CTS come from Alpha (given Cadillacs huge vested energy in the project) Or will it remain on some form of Sigma (and remain the ONLY model on Sigma)
Part of me really hates that Cadillac is Sigma-izing Alpha. But then again, I'd be happy with it as long as Buick gets some of the love and Chevrolet has some sort of RWD alternative (Zeta lite or a slightly decontented Alpha)
My question is this; will the next, larger CTS come from Alpha (given Cadillacs huge vested energy in the project) Or will it remain on some form of Sigma (and remain the ONLY model on Sigma)
It's sounds like Sigma will be replaced by a stretched version of Alpha, (Alpha +).
01-17-2010, 09:35 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
I would expect that there has been no firm decision made at this point, as we've had the current Camaro less than a year. Thus, everything could still change.
01-17-2010, 10:39 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
I don't see why an updated Zeta2 Camaro couldn't learn from the work done for the Alpha steering. If the next Camaro is Zeta2, then it's not a Zeta Camaro.
I would expect that there has been no firm decision made at this point, as we've had the current Camaro less than a year. Thus, everything could still change.
I would expect that there has been no firm decision made at this point, as we've had the current Camaro less than a year. Thus, everything could still change.
Of course you are correct, anything could change at any time for any reason. But currently, there are no plans for another Zeta Camaro.
01-17-2010, 10:45 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 4,306
Id like to know what will Holden use. Are they gunna get thier own chassis? Or will Alpha for the basis for the next gen Commodore?
Holden is working hard on cutting mass out of Zeta, so this could only help for the future of Camaro.
I think Camaro's fate is tied into Zeta and Holden.
Holden is working hard on cutting mass out of Zeta, so this could only help for the future of Camaro.
I think Camaro's fate is tied into Zeta and Holden.
01-17-2010, 10:46 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
But there aren't plans for an Alpha Camaro either, right? It's one thing for people to be pondering this or chatting about it over the water cooler or a beer, but it's another for someone to be tasked to write up a formal proposal.
01-17-2010, 11:11 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
One thing that I don't understand here is if Alpha is supposedly a premium platform, how does this tie up with Camaro? 
If, as Guy pointed out, the Camaro becomes a recipient of a low cost version of Alpha, does this not imply that it will become a compromised Camaro?
Am I joining all the dots correctly or not?
If, as Guy pointed out, the Camaro becomes a recipient of a low cost version of Alpha, does this not imply that it will become a compromised Camaro?
Am I joining all the dots correctly or not?
01-17-2010, 11:25 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
One thing that I don't understand here is if Alpha is supposedly a premium platform, how does this tie up with Camaro?
If, as Guy pointed out, the Camaro becomes a recipient of a low cost version of Alpha, does this not imply that it will become a compromised Camaro?
Am I joining all the dots correctly or not?
If, as Guy pointed out, the Camaro becomes a recipient of a low cost version of Alpha, does this not imply that it will become a compromised Camaro?
Am I joining all the dots correctly or not?
Is the Malibu compromised because it shares an architecture with Buick and soon Cadillac?
Compromises? Sure, every architecture has them. The hope is that Camaro's compromises will be fewer tomorrow than they are today.
01-18-2010, 02:59 AM
#25
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 384
That, in most peoples eyes, will be a downgrade and very bad for sales if gas prices aren't high.
01-18-2010, 08:47 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
The worry is that for the cost you pay for a current V8 Camaro you will pay for the next alpha camaro, except it's engine will be a V6 due to alpha being designed for I4 or V6 engines.
That, in most peoples eyes, will be a downgrade and very bad for sales if gas prices aren't high.
That, in most peoples eyes, will be a downgrade and very bad for sales if gas prices aren't high.
01-18-2010, 09:35 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Id like to know what will Holden use. Are they gunna get thier own chassis? Or will Alpha for the basis for the next gen Commodore?
Holden is working hard on cutting mass out of Zeta, so this could only help for the future of Camaro.
I think Camaro's fate is tied into Zeta and Holden.
Holden is working hard on cutting mass out of Zeta, so this could only help for the future of Camaro.
I think Camaro's fate is tied into Zeta and Holden.
(oh yes, I still remember that comment).I wonder what the final outcome will be with the Falcon. If the next gen Falcon is actually smaller and based on the Mustang's architecture, perhaps Holden may (or not) follow suit with a smaller Commodore late decade.
01-18-2010, 12:57 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
Looks like Holden will use Zeta for the foreseeable future. I don't think the refreshed Holdens will lose as much mass as some people think. Maybe they'll go on the same Jenny Craig diet, which Doug Houlihan bragged about the Camaro being on (oh yes, I still remember that comment).
(oh yes, I still remember that comment).1. I don't think an Alpha with a V8 will lose as much mass as some people think.
2. The Camaro came a good 250 pounds under the Challenger, where the G8 was within 100 of the Charger. So the Camaro may very well have started out above 4000.
01-18-2010, 02:01 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
1. That would suck, huh!?
We really can only speculate on what it might weigh. The only thing that is known for sure is that GM knows that the current one is overmassed, and they also want the next one to shed substantial poundage. Ruess's recent public comments on that were encouraging.2. Scary, to think this is the featherweight version.
01-18-2010, 02:47 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 350
gezzzz what took gm so long to think about that idea ... how about just build them here also the people down under have their sh@t together take a look at the holden web site and how many different configurations they come in..........there is a bunch of monkeys running gm ..... no wonder they have such a hard time selling cars.... GM wake up!!!! because you guys have no idea what the America people want ... you should had the g8 or a car like that out years ago .... so what do they do make the g8 for a few years and kill it just like the gto .........