95redLT1

Guy says "yes" in Post 44 of this thread

Lets keep our fingers crossed!

jg95z28

Our buyer just checked with our Ford supplier and according to him the Crown Vic will be available through 2011, when it will be replaced by a new car. The buyer told me it was to be powered by an Ecoboost V6, so I'm guessing it will be based off the Taurus? I can't believe Ford will go with a FWD based police vehicle when most law enforcement departments won't touch them. Perhaps Ford has something else up their sleeve?

P.S.
Oops. I missed that thread the first time.

30thZ286speed

Ford will offer a police pkg. Taurus and Edge. I doubt Ford will offer the Ecoboost engines in police pkg applications. I can't see a turbocharged engine holding up to the daily partrol abuse.

SSbaby

Guy is never wrong on these rumors. He's always one of the first with exclusives.

formula79

Whatever you say...but I still say your wrong. Crown Vic is cheap and ancient..GM will not be able to be price competive with it.



I forgot Guy..you know everything there is to know about this stuff...I mean I only own two of the cars...so what the hell would I know? More and more you are reminding me of the old uncle who will make a stand on something they know is wrong..no matter how wrong they are...just for the point of arguing. Sit in a G8, and Camaro..not aside from the drivertain, not one thing carry's over. Pretty much the same case for the GTO.

However..if you need specific examples-

- If your radio goes in your GTO, your screwed. You can't buy OEM replacement radios..you have to buy a used one, and have it refurbished.

- Someone rear ended my GTO...took 2 weeks to get a new rear clip.

- I was doing a NAV install on my GTO, and one of the interior trim plates got scratched. Again..2 weeks to get it from a dealer.

- I got ran up on a curb, and rashed two of my 18" GTO wheels..I went to buy new ones, and guess what..I was told by several dealers that you simply could not buy the rims new anymore.

- I had a shop we use install cut outs on my G8. They drilled a hold for a switch I did not like in the little cell phone cubbie. To get a replacement from a dealer took 3 weeks.

- Now my GTO needs a new front bumper cover because for some reason one of the plastic clips broke. It runs $670..which is $200 more than a Grand Prix bumper cover...and you guess it...it will take two weeks or more.

Now..I would love to see the business case for how GM plans on selling the Caprice for several thousand less than G8, yet also can invest in signifigantly more parts inventory and still make money.

Hell, the sheriff here maintains their own junk yard full of Corwn Vic's, and routinly pulls parts off wrecked cars to save money. I am thinking they will do anything they can to avoid buying anything non Crown Vic in volume.

30thZ286speed

GM won't have to. The Crown Vic will be gone, so the market will be up for grabs. It will be all Caprice and Charger.

notgetleft

Let me add:

- only part i had fail on my GTO was a door lock solenoid, a common early failure. Took the dealer weeks to get one in.

- ignition switches were famously back ordered forever because so many went bad on GTOs. People waited months with unusable cars for their switch to cross the ocean on a boat.

- Ive noticed while under the goat that the GTO uses a mitsubishi starter. I hope a regular LS1 starter fits, never checked.

- Also, the GTO uses oddball connectors on its O2 sensors unlike other GM cars.

Did holden decide to start sourcing those parts from GMNA for their commodore? I'm sure holden made a decision to put themselves on the wrong end of the boat ride for parts for their volume sedan. Or maybe all their suppliers in Oz became reasonable and did things the GMNA way?

ps. I also have some broken clips on my front fascia from an offroad incident last winter. The seam on the drivers side isn't quite right, but it's good enough that no one notices unless i show them. I'm not worried about replacing it, though i should be since it will only become more impossible to get one later.

formula79

Not exactly...I predict you will see refurbish programs like the Caprice has because new replacements will cost so much more than a new Crown Voc did. We had police Caprices on the road in police service 10 years after production ended because they put them through refurbish programs. I still see a few of the B-body Caprices here and there with the county seal on them. As I said above..the department has all crown vics now and maintains them almost exclusivly. They did buy 5 Impala's at one point that they disliked because they cost more to maintain, and required different, more expensive parts than the rest of the fleet.

formula79

I have a G8, and have once overed the Camaro looking SPECIFICALLY for shared parts..and none were found. In pictures, the steering wheel controls, and DIC look like they could come from the same place..but when you see how they feel and function, they are completely different parts. The Camaro has GM's new switch gear that is used in the Equinox and LaCrosse, where G8..is straight Holden source from their German suppliers. You would think the brakes would be the same..but the rotors, calipers, and pads are all different part numbers than the G8. The drivertrain is the only place I think parts are shared, and even some of that is different because some of drivetrain stuff Holden uses is a a few revisions behind (think it has to do with how they stock pile parts). For instance, G8/Commodore still has an old housing style MAF sensor, where the Camaro has the new plug style Corvette one. This means even though both cars have LS3's, and are on the same platform..completely different intakes are needed.

The again..why would Holden ship parts for whatever 250,000 Zeta cars the make from GM NA suppliers just to ship 30K cars back here. From what I understand they have always made a lot of stuff in house..and what they don't they buy from German suppliers because of Opel legacy in the platform.

Caps94ZODG

Formula..I hear what your saying..but in the time this actually goes through..dont you think they will have a support center for these cars? Especially if they want to win over police departments? I am sure GM knows they can not have police cars sit at dealers waiting for parts..
And like mentioned in a few places this is just till they are possible made over here? Then yea maybe the price will skyrocket on parts since its not a volume model.

And last if I might just point out..I know your saying it takes forever to get your parts in to fix your GTO and now your G8..maybe on a smaller scale I know what your talking about..I have a 2007 Grand Prix GXP and sure it shares the same drivetrain as the Impala..but front and rear bumper, trim peices, spoiler, rims, rotors and calipers, suspension and interior bits and peices..almost everyone has to wait those weeks like you mention and its made in NA??? Now the G8 the GTO and the GXP GP are low enough volume cars not like the G5 or the G6 or whatever where they have them in the local warehouses..but the regional and they need to ship them there..just sturkc me as funny as what you said some of the guys at the GP forum dread brining in thier GXP for service fearing the same thing..

So maybe its not so much where the cars built..but the allocation and storage of parts is the problem..I mean if your dealer is getting parts all the way from Holden just for your car thats BS...they should be here in the U.S...and I would hope GM knows that.

SSbaby

I found Branden's comments quite interesting.

I had no idea that Holden's VE parts were so different to GM's.

I'm assuming that the reason for the widespread differentiation would be Holden's specific business plan. I'm not sure of the numbers but I would hazard a guess and say that quite a lot of components for VE actually arrive from Asia (as they would be cheaper) and not necessarily Opel. I could be wrong though.

You can't exactly blame Holden as their business focus would veer towards profitability and self-sustainability. Using parts from GM would cost Holden substantially more... which would be self-defeating.

However, it's interesting to note that problems common to Camaro (so far) do not affect VE... and vice versa.

Z284ever

Me too.

There are thousands of small communities all over the country who depend on their small handful of police cars to be ready and available 24/7. If you have 3 or 4 cars, you simply cannot have one out of service for weeks due to some minor repair. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out - and where Carbon positions itself. I know Guy feels Carbon is a non-issue, but they have an interesting and pretty sophisticated business plan which also includes complete maintenance, repair and buy back support.

guionM

It is an interesting concept, and I also wish them well because as mentioned, there's alot of people whose jobs will be dependent on their success. I simply think they are in for a serious reality check, and they really, really need to have other options and backup plans on-the-ready the moment they start production.


I was talking about Carbon Motors, which I believe the post was about.

I'd give a civilian version of the Caprice showing up in Chevrolet showrooms at minimum a 75% chance. However, it won't be this one shown. It will be the redone WN Holden. The idea is familiar if you were following Ford's initial plan with the Australian Ford Fairmount. Make Australia's locally produced big cars financially feasible by also using them to replace large American cars.

Expect the Caprice to be sold exclusively to police departments the 1st year or so, and to return to Chevrolet showrooms for retail once GM gets a handle on what they can do with CAFE, the Feds start selling off their share of GM (as early as mid next year), and GM gets a little more confident with the direction of the new car market.

A new Caprice IS on the table for a return to Chevrolet showrooms. But like the cancelled Z28 that really was simply put on hold, GM has other priorities they need to deal with first. That's why Lutz said it was coming (it is) and Fritz said no (he didn't want to simply rehash the G8, and there is a new Caprice due in a couple of years).


Regarding law enforcement sales, I think the Chevrolet Caprice has the potential of taking a majority of the Crown Victoria's police market if pricing is competitive. Although the Caprice is fairly modest in size (it's not much longer than the Impala) it's a cavern as far as interior room goes.

The Dodge Charger's advantage is that it will have been on the market long enough that it will be the car with the most aftermarket Police goodies being manufactured. However, the Caprice's new-kid-on-the-block lack of custom made LE equptment is offset by the fact that the Holden Caprice has been a police car for a few years now in Oz, and there's plenty of police add-ons already available.

In the end, I think Ford will end up kicking themselves in the head over discontinuing the Crown Vic and not offering a RWD sedan.

jg95z28

Interior be damned, the reason our department rejected the Charger was due to the lack of enough trunk space to mount all our equipment. (Although the Chief loved his test Charger.) The Caprice will be equally as difficult to pass because of the trunk mounted spare tire. The amount of racks, computers and other equipment we need to mount isn't going away, and although the interior may be cavernous, the equipment simply cannot be mounted there.

My Red 93Z-28

This is where I think Carbon has a big advantage, because it is a purpose-built police car. Computers and other equipment will be integrated into the car already. Fuel mileage is supposed to be better, as well as emissions and I think it's lighter as well.