Help me Obi-Wan Solstice... you're my only hope.
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My thought on capacity is that they still want to crank out 300,000+ units a year from the factories, but they want them flexible enough to shift capacity from a struggling car to a stronger one at the same plant.
Meaning that if some day Solstice, Bengal, Sky and Camaro are built at the same plant, but (for instance) the Solstice sales tank, then Camaro, Bengal and Sky can be built instead.
Or maybe even a small SUV (NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Oh GOD! NOOOOOO!!!!!).
Meaning that if some day Solstice, Bengal, Sky and Camaro are built at the same plant, but (for instance) the Solstice sales tank, then Camaro, Bengal and Sky can be built instead.
Or maybe even a small SUV (NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Oh GOD! NOOOOOO!!!!!).
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by PacerX
My thought on capacity is that they still want to crank out 300,000+ units a year from the factories, but they want them flexible enough to shift capacity from a struggling car to a stronger one at the same plant.
Meaning that if some day Solstice, Bengal, Sky and Camaro are built at the same plant, but (for instance) the Solstice sales tank, then Camaro, Bengal and Sky can be built instead.
Or maybe even a small SUV (NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Oh GOD! NOOOOOO!!!!!).
My thought on capacity is that they still want to crank out 300,000+ units a year from the factories, but they want them flexible enough to shift capacity from a struggling car to a stronger one at the same plant.
Meaning that if some day Solstice, Bengal, Sky and Camaro are built at the same plant, but (for instance) the Solstice sales tank, then Camaro, Bengal and Sky can be built instead.
Or maybe even a small SUV (NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Oh GOD! NOOOOOO!!!!!).
I know CTS, and SRX (there is your SUV
) are on Sigma now... couldn't your same line of reasoning be applied to the Sigma platform then? Or are you assuming Sigma to be inteded as a lower volume platform?
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Brother Darth,
STS has to be built somewhere... and it's switching to RWD before DeVille is.
Kinda makes me go "hmmmm....".
But anyway, I don't think SRX and CTS are the last two cars off of Sigma for North America. Just a gut feeling, no hard info.
STS has to be built somewhere... and it's switching to RWD before DeVille is.
Kinda makes me go "hmmmm....".
But anyway, I don't think SRX and CTS are the last two cars off of Sigma for North America. Just a gut feeling, no hard info.
Last edited by PacerX; Feb 3, 2003 at 01:55 PM.
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by PacerX
Brother Darth,
STS has to be built somewhere... and it's switching to RWD before DeVille is.
Kinda makes me go "hmmmm....".
Brother Darth,
STS has to be built somewhere... and it's switching to RWD before DeVille is.
Kinda makes me go "hmmmm....".
I also heard a Buick variant may go on Sigma....
Do you think CTS, SRX, STS, and the Buick would be enough to eat up all the capacity?
CTS and SRX are currently assembled at Lansing... (not sure what their capacity is... )
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If the Buick Sigma variant is LeSabre, there's enough volume right there to team with STS, SRX and CTS and keep the Lansing plant running two shifts, full tilt, 48 weeks a year.
Buick City used to share LeSabre, Park Avenue and Olds 88 and run about 480 cars a shift (if memory serves), which is slower than the line could run.
One other thing that should be noted is that the luxury car lines run slower than the truck or small car lines because of more parts.
Buick City used to share LeSabre, Park Avenue and Olds 88 and run about 480 cars a shift (if memory serves), which is slower than the line could run.
One other thing that should be noted is that the luxury car lines run slower than the truck or small car lines because of more parts.
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by PacerX
If the Buick Sigma variant is LeSabre, there's enough volume right there to team with STS, SRX and CTS and keep the Lansing plant running two shifts, full tilt, 48 weeks a year.
Buick City used to share LeSabre, Park Avenue and Olds 88 and run about 480 cars a shift (if memory serves), which is slower than the line could run.
One other thing that should be noted is that the luxury car lines run slower than the truck or small car lines because of more parts.
If the Buick Sigma variant is LeSabre, there's enough volume right there to team with STS, SRX and CTS and keep the Lansing plant running two shifts, full tilt, 48 weeks a year.
Buick City used to share LeSabre, Park Avenue and Olds 88 and run about 480 cars a shift (if memory serves), which is slower than the line could run.
One other thing that should be noted is that the luxury car lines run slower than the truck or small car lines because of more parts.
I guess if we assume all of the above to be true.... then they'd almost need to look at bringing a second Sigma factory on line...
I wonder what the likelihood of that happenening is...
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Kinda on an unrelated note, I really like the setup you guys put out with CTS, SRX, STS and LaSaber on Sigma. It seems really solid from a business stand point, although Im nowhere near an expert. The least expensive vheicle on that platform would be the LaSaber which would probably weigh in at what, high 20s, maybe in entry CTS area. So you dont have one weak link pulling down the credibility of the platform.
On topic, I was weary about your Solistice / 5th gen idea when you first proposed it, but between you and guion saying that Solstice is a lot larger in person (I dont recall seeing it at c-town last year) and hopefully they can mask the Solstice's god-awful look (objective, ovbiously) Im all for it.
What about the Sigma/VE? If that is going to be producing like 300 million cars in 05/06, wouldnt it be easy to slip an Fbody onto that line?
On topic, I was weary about your Solistice / 5th gen idea when you first proposed it, but between you and guion saying that Solstice is a lot larger in person (I dont recall seeing it at c-town last year) and hopefully they can mask the Solstice's god-awful look (objective, ovbiously) Im all for it.
What about the Sigma/VE? If that is going to be producing like 300 million cars in 05/06, wouldnt it be easy to slip an Fbody onto that line?
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by Chuck!
What about the Sigma/VE? If that is going to be producing like 300 million cars in 05/06, wouldnt it be easy to slip an Fbody onto that line?
What about the Sigma/VE? If that is going to be producing like 300 million cars in 05/06, wouldnt it be easy to slip an Fbody onto that line?
Monte Carlo, Impala, Grand Prix, et al need a platform if they in fact go RWD as well...
If this is to be the "Sigma Lite" or however you want to descibe it... would this be another avenue for a Camaro?
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From: Houston
Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
Considering the fact that they can't even confirm if there will even be another Camaro, it shouldn't suprise you that any options brought up are met with an unenthusiastic response. Even if we nailed the plans he couldn't tell us.
Considering the fact that they can't even confirm if there will even be another Camaro, it shouldn't suprise you that any options brought up are met with an unenthusiastic response. Even if we nailed the plans he couldn't tell us.
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From: Houston
Originally posted by Z28Wilson
By the way, I don't think Red Planet ever poo-pooed the idea of a Solstice-based Camaro, he simply said that whatever a 5th Gen Camaro rides on has to perform "like a Camaro" in all aspects or it won't be considered, period. So take that for whatever it is worth. [/B]
By the way, I don't think Red Planet ever poo-pooed the idea of a Solstice-based Camaro, he simply said that whatever a 5th Gen Camaro rides on has to perform "like a Camaro" in all aspects or it won't be considered, period. So take that for whatever it is worth. [/B]
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4
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From: Calgary
ah...let me understand and see if I get this right.
The Solisitce will be 2 seater and the Bengal 4 and the Sky---probably a 4 too eh?
At first I thought no way---2 and 4 seatrer off same platform BUT then I remebered Nissan 350Z and
G35 coupe (and sedan) all built off FM(something)
platform.
The Solisitce will be 2 seater and the Bengal 4 and the Sky---probably a 4 too eh?
At first I thought no way---2 and 4 seatrer off same platform BUT then I remebered Nissan 350Z and
G35 coupe (and sedan) all built off FM(something)
platform.
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From: Houston, TX USA
He said the same thing about the Monaro/GTO. If the chassis looks as appealing as you say, he may change his mind. People do change their minds, you know. And Red Planet (while by his name you may think he is a celestial object) is indeed a person.
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From: Sterling Heights, MI
Originally posted by stars1010
He sort of shot down the idea here......
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4
He sort of shot down the idea here......
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4
I don't see that as "shooting it down", he said IF the architecture, whatever it is, doesn't allow it to be a real Camaro then forget it. That's what I said earlier in this thread.
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From: Chicagoland IL
PacerX makes a credible and plausible argument for using the Solstice/Bengal/Sky platform for the next Camaro.
And yet, I have these nagging doubts about it.
1) By GM's own admission, this "new" platform will be created by raiding GM's corporate parts bin. Nothing really wrong with that...if they are the right parts. But it looks more like they will be using econo-car parts. Certainly McPherson struts will be used up front.
Sure BMW makes this setup work on the 3 series...but that's BMW.
Camaro will need to compete with Nissan's very sophisticated FM architecture, and Mustang's very well thought out SLA front and multi-link Control Blade rear suspension.
Cutting corners on Camaro's chassis would be an unwise decision.
2) I don't doubt that someone could shoehorn a V8 in the Solstice's engine bay...but will that really make it a producible V8 car? Not without spending a whole bunch more money.(Remember this is supposed to be a cheap, austere platform). What additional costs would be needed to make this platform V8 ready?
Extra cooling, revisions in the front suspension and cradle sub-structure, greater rigidity, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, transmissions, differential, axles, etc., etc. (I'm sure some of you can think of more.)
It may cost less to modify Sigma, VE, Y-car or some combo of these for Camaro.
3) Here's another thing that bugs me. Do we really want our next Camaro to share a platform with Saturn Sky?
And yet, I have these nagging doubts about it.
1) By GM's own admission, this "new" platform will be created by raiding GM's corporate parts bin. Nothing really wrong with that...if they are the right parts. But it looks more like they will be using econo-car parts. Certainly McPherson struts will be used up front.
Sure BMW makes this setup work on the 3 series...but that's BMW.
Camaro will need to compete with Nissan's very sophisticated FM architecture, and Mustang's very well thought out SLA front and multi-link Control Blade rear suspension.
Cutting corners on Camaro's chassis would be an unwise decision.
2) I don't doubt that someone could shoehorn a V8 in the Solstice's engine bay...but will that really make it a producible V8 car? Not without spending a whole bunch more money.(Remember this is supposed to be a cheap, austere platform). What additional costs would be needed to make this platform V8 ready?
Extra cooling, revisions in the front suspension and cradle sub-structure, greater rigidity, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, transmissions, differential, axles, etc., etc. (I'm sure some of you can think of more.)
It may cost less to modify Sigma, VE, Y-car or some combo of these for Camaro.
3) Here's another thing that bugs me. Do we really want our next Camaro to share a platform with Saturn Sky?
Last edited by Z284ever; Feb 3, 2003 at 11:15 PM.
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I was looking at some pictures of the Solstice, Sky, and Bengal in a magazine, and I don't think it would be a good starting point for the next Camaro. Looking at the Bengal, the biggest car of the bunch, it just dosen't seem like the right size car for what the Camaro needs to be.
Besides, I would rather have a rigid/worldclass chasis, (Sigma, next RWD chassis like new Monte or GTO), shortened or altered to make it smaller then to have a chasis that is smaller and weaker stretched out potentially compromising it. Besides, what happens when people start modding them for more power? Oh yeah, put subframe connectors on it.
Bottom line is that I would rather have the chasis be overkill as far as strength then have any weaknesses at all.
Besides, I would rather have a rigid/worldclass chasis, (Sigma, next RWD chassis like new Monte or GTO), shortened or altered to make it smaller then to have a chasis that is smaller and weaker stretched out potentially compromising it. Besides, what happens when people start modding them for more power? Oh yeah, put subframe connectors on it.
Bottom line is that I would rather have the chasis be overkill as far as strength then have any weaknesses at all.