Can anyone give me the link to where Guionm posted about Camaro being based off a baby Zeta and it being a niche vehicle? I've read people reference it but can't seem to find it. Did he make a new post about it. delete it, or put it in an existing thread? I'd really like to read it. Thanks

 

Check here...also see Red Planet's post....

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...0&page=6&pp=15

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...0&page=7&pp=15

 

You know all this "niche" talk about Camaro and even Solstice begs the question of why no Firebird?! If Chevy can have a GTO (Chevelle) and a Camaro, why can't Pontiac have the GTO and Firebird. Note to Pontiac: I don't want a GTO, I want a Firebird, specifically a Trans Am!

We know RP is the Camaro guy, does Scott have a counterpart on the Firebird side? If so, I sure would like to know who he is and have his email address.

 

Agreed, I'm a Firebird guy too...I won't but a Camaro. If you do get that info, please post it...I know there are more people on here that feel the same way.

 

That is a pretty goood point

 

The thing they always tell us is that Solstice is taking over the cheaper sporty segment and or that a Firebird wouldn't fit into the "BMW" image that they have for Pontiac in their dellusions.

 

Nope, no counterpart at Pontiac that I'm aware of. There hasn't been since John Delorean. I figure in about 10 years or so after spending lots of money and having a dozen failures, GM will realize that trying to make Pointiac in the "BMW" image simply won't work. Then someone will have the bright idea to bring back the Firebird. Kind of like Nissan did with the 350Z after several years of dull products.

 

As a huge Firebird fan myself, I too mourn the loss of the car...

But the above statement, in my opinion, is so short-sighted it is not even funny. You think Pontiac will fail merely because it does not have a Firebird, and because the division wants to be more sophisticated? Hell, it NEEDS to be. Are you going to tell me Pontiac is not better off with a GTO, a V8 Grand Prix, a G6, and a Solstice over what it had 3 years ago??

Come on now...the "BMW" image will work, so long as they are not priced like one. And I think that's the plan. I was skeptical myself...but go drive a new G6, then tell me Pontiac is headed in the wrong direction. Or, a GTO for that matter. I have not met ONE F body owner who thinks the GTO is inferior after a test drive. It is different for sure, but in no way is Pontiac significantly worse off.

 

Dont forget about the Pontiac "mystery vehicle" mentioned in a recent GM Edge dealer magazine.

 

I don't understand, what is wrong with Pontiac having a Pontiac image? Pontiac's image should project American performance cars, with American style and top performance, not American cars trying to be Euro preformance cars. I hated when Chevy went through the whole Euro thing back in the late 80s and early 90s attaching "Euro" to the name of some cars.

Pontiac's car with the biggest image of "American performance" was killed at the end of 2002 production

I like the GTO and wouldn't mind owning one, when they become more affordable. But Pontiac's performance image will never be complete as long as they have minivans and all FWD sedans. Pontiac desperately needs some RWD performance sedans, plus optional manual gearboxes in each car in the line up wouldn't hurt either.

With GMs resources Pontiac could and SHOULD be much more than what it is today.

 

And also if the sucke.... er.... I mean customers falling for that hype.... have never actually driven a BMW.

 

I love Pontiac and think the lineup is good... but teh G6 by itself does not make Pontiac some kind of magical BMW alternative. There are still too many other cars to fix. To quote the President "it's hard work" trying to reinvent the image of a division. They need a lot of work before they can rival the ultimate driving machine. If they could deliver a product at least as good as BMW for less money, well that will be awesome. But somehow I just can't see that happening. Almost as much quality for much less money... that is more likely. And even though that could possibly mean Pontiac is a better value, they still will not have the image that BMW has.

 

Frankly, I wish Pontiac would spare us this "American BMW" business, and just try really hard to become the "American Mazda".

 

Why aim so low with Mazda?
I think the BMW goal is more like having a performance division where the handling and power of the car is the goal, where Chevy is more of offering bang for your buck, Buick being an American luxury car, and Caddy offering everything combined.
I dont think they want to be BMW, but they want to carry that statement of having a performance car LIKE BMW, and that is a good goal.

 

It's just so silly. What does that make Cadillac.... the "American Rolls Royce"? What about Saturn when it slots above Pontiac?

Really, comparing Pontiac to BMW is just plain annoying. In my wildest dreams, I can't imagine someone trading in their BMW 540 for a Bonneville or a 330i for a G6. Or an M3 for a GTO.

Mazda, on the other hand...has become a sort of semi-premium sporty brand. Something that Pontiac would like to be. Their products parallel each other and I can see consumers cross-shopping them.

-Performance wise, how will the G6 compare to Mazda 6?
-Will the MazdaSpeed 6 blow away the upcoming LS4 GP GXP?
-Which car was bencmarked to death for Solstice? That would be Miata.
-RX8 and GTO. Both have awesome interiors. GTO has more power, RX8 has more chassis.
-Mazda 3...what a great car and great value. Better than Vibe?
-I'll spare the minivans, but the MPV is sportier.